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Aphanius question
July 5, 2012
3:49 pm
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mikev
NYC
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I noticed Aphanius eggs listed on Aquabid... not a fish I'm familiar with but I'm guessing (after reading pretty nice SF profiles :D) not that different from West African Killies?
Any recommendations as far as the more interesting/attractive species to try? Available are anatoliae, danfordii, iberus and persicus.

July 6, 2012
4:47 pm
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Matt
Málaga, Spain
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I've only experience with A. anatoliae and A. iberus Mike but of those I think A. iberus would prove the least aggressive and best for a smaller tank. Are there any population details attached to the eggs?

They're not so different to West Africans but it's important not to maintain them at a constant temperature so keep them unheated. Don't worry about winter - all my Aphanius are outdoors and spend time under ice each year.

You'll also need to provide a suitable spawning medium for which synthetic mops are fine - light colours tend to work better than dark since the adults are voracious egg-eaters.

 

Edit: one other thing, A. persicus is now known as A. farsicus.

Cake or death?
July 6, 2012
6:57 pm
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mikev
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Thanks Matt, You know infinitely more than I do....

How bad is the aggression? (I don't see much from my Ap/Fp species... the only problems so far were a couple of overly aggressive males but putting two more males with them seems to pacify them.)

Populations:
anatoliae kovada kanal, danfordii Soysalli, iberus Alt Emporda and persicus Barme Shoor springs.
The eggs come from Germany, so if these are of interest to you, you have much better chance to get them in good shape...check AB for seller=Ripchen3.

July 9, 2012
8:18 am
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Matt
Málaga, Spain
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Cheers Mike but not for me. No room for more fishes at the moment. :)

Aggression depends on species - I've had A. mento males kill each other and I suspect that A. anatoliae would do the same in smaller tanks. A. iberus and A. transgrediens, on the other hand, have been relatively peaceful and though males do chase each other that's as far as it tends to go.

You going to give them a try?

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July 9, 2012
6:33 pm
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mikev
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Thanks Matt --- glad I waited for your clarification on aggression before bidding! Cool

I really should not.... no space.... but I have a strong urge to try a non-African killie, and there are not that many interesting options. Embarassed

July 13, 2012
6:06 pm
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mikev
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OK... I did go ahead with iberus... let's see what happens (eggs from overseas are obviously iffy...)
He added one more species,
http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin.....1342367087

July 23, 2012
8:17 pm
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mikev
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OK... I have the eggs... So far looks quite good, 3 days travel from Germany, eggs shipped in water Cool (I never never have good results with peat) and I can see some development.

Now I read your profile more carefully. Question: 7.0+, 150 ppm, my default, is too soft for them? (I can use something harder/more alkaline, if needed).

Matt, one more question if I may: if these hatch ok (1 week?), I'll probably order another one (not all, of course)... any one in particular is more worthy for the sake of profiles?

Incidentally, I asked the vendor about aggression... he claims none of his species are.

July 24, 2012
8:20 am
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Matt
Málaga, Spain
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Not especially Mike, these are all well-established lines. A. farsicus and A. transgrediens are the ones I'd recommend if only for their conservation status.

Water conditions shouldn't be too important as long as it isn't too soft - my friend Roberto did an experiment with A. iberus, beginning with a few adults in a tank with fully fresh water, into which was tipped a full 1 kg bag of marine salt. Fish just carried on swimming as though nothing had happened.Laugh

A. iberus likes it quite chilly in winter and will go semi-dormant, feeding only on warmer days. We've found that wild ones physically burrow into the substrate during the coldest months. If you keep them at a constant temperature they may initially pump out the eggs but eventually both lifespan and fecundity will be affected.

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July 24, 2012
4:49 pm
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mikev
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Thanks, Matt,

I will see what I can do about winter. I probably have exactly the right climate, maybe it is the time to set up a pond.

July 25, 2012
8:10 am
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Matt
Málaga, Spain
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Hoiw cold does it get in winter where you are Mike?

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July 25, 2012
6:43 pm
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mikev
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I think it is about the same as Western Europe... some days below zero, maybe 20-30 days with overnight lows below zero...
I'm guessing that a sufficiently large pond will not freeze but a 5g-10g tank left outdoors might, so I need to find a heater that can be set to 5C,... hopefully such things exist. I'll do some asking, I'm sure others did this.

July 26, 2012
9:09 am
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Matt
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I use 90 litre plastic tubs and the fish are ok year-round - no problem for them to survive under 2-3" of ice for short periods. Agree a small tank might not work though. Pond would of course be preferable!

DSC_0731.JPGImage Enlarger

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July 26, 2012
6:23 pm
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mikev
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Ok... this is becoming clearer now, thanks!

Are you aerating these tubs at all? A possible solution that occurred to me is to simply aerate with an air pump running indoors. 70F air bubbles should both prevent ice formation and raise the water temperature a bit. (I know that an opposite setup: running an indoor tank from an outdoor pump is used by some people to cool tanks, in fact this also may be a solution for me.)

July 27, 2012
8:10 am
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Matt
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Nope, no aeration at all though doesn't sound a bad idea. We're considering using one or two huge air pumps at the delta site.

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July 27, 2012
10:21 pm
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mikev
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All right... this is not an immediate issue, and if read your profile correctly I should be able to raise them indoors and even breed once before the cold weather starts.
Does not seem like all that difficult a fish... I had 12 hatches out of 15 promised eggs (very impressive score, especially for overseas), and the oldest two (from yesterday) eating artemia. :D
.....

Hmm... your tubs are not covered? does this mean they are not psychotic jumpers like typical killies are? This would be nice.

July 30, 2012
8:20 am
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Matt
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Aphanius don't really jump no - only time it's ever happened here was with an A. mento male trying to escape another one. Personally I wouldn't try to breed them this year since any young born at this time in the wild wouldn't be reproducing until the following Spring.

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November 2, 2012
10:02 pm
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mikev
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yes, you were right: no breeding hopes until spring. They definitely grow much slower than other killies, despite looking fine they are only 0.5".

March 28, 2013
10:00 pm
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mikev
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Matt et al,

Any hints on breeding?

These guys were born last August, and I think should be mature enough now... I gave them a mop a few days ago, but no eggs.

Too young? Need bottom mop? life food? (they get artemia daily) or seasonal (per profile).

Incidentally, very attractive now... not sorry at all I got them.

Thanks!

March 28, 2013
11:58 pm
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Graham Ramsay
Blairgowrie - UK
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I've kept iberus, dispar and mento. Of these iberus is certainly the easiest. Bred more or less as soon as you could sex them. Love newly hatched brine shrimp. I spawned them in pairs in a small tank with 3 or 4 hanging mops.

March 29, 2013
1:37 pm
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mikev
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Thank you Graham

Hmm.. it is a.iberus... and they sexed out 3+ months ago, and are fed well I hope (artemia daily + frozen foods). And I do have a couple of very fat females (plus at least 6 males).
Shows how lousy I am :(

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