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Artificial Ph Adjusters
October 22, 2008
11:50 am
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ndc
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anyone used artificial ph adjusters , like blackwater tonic to lower ph? what have they been like in terms of keeping the water perameters stable? is there much of a fluctuation?

October 22, 2008
12:31 pm
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dunc
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Check Haji's recent post in his project thread. He uses pH Down.

Personally I was always told to avoid anything like it, but then.. that was by people that would keep angels at "room temp". So who knows /biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />

October 22, 2008
2:27 pm
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mickthefish
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personally i avoid using them, i just use natural methods ok they might take a bit of time but eventually they do the desired effect, to reduce the ph i use one of three of these oak or almond leaves, peat, or a well rotted down piece of bogwood.
to raise the ph and hardness i use tufa rock or coral gravel, the last i put in the external filter as the water passes through it all the time.
as a quick fix if the ph has really gone down i use bicarb of soda but it holds the ph for a certain amount of time.

mick

October 22, 2008
3:40 pm
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Mark Duffill
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Same as Mick, I use natural methods rather than artificial ph adjusters.

The water around us is prone to ph swings so I have a little coral sand in most of my tanks to act as a buffer and use Almond leaves or peat to bring ph down.

October 22, 2008
3:51 pm
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Matt
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I use a product that is supposed to be used for growing plants hydroponically. It's 90-odd% Phosphoric acid and works really well but you have to be careful and add it drop-by-drop. I always use leaf litter or pure peat fibre (not the garden centre stuff) in my softwater tanks as well.

Cake or death?
October 22, 2008
4:52 pm
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ndc
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ive always done the same (with the natural methods) and to be honest i never sold any of the artificial adjusters when i had the shop because i didnt think they were worth using - just thought id get 1st hand knowledge - i think ill just add another couple of big bits of bogwood instead. the ph is about 6.5 now - i was hoping to get it a little lower (just under the 6 or just on the 6) but keeping it stable as well which is the problem in acidic tanks.

October 22, 2008
4:53 pm
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ndc
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do the oak/almond leaves just need changing when they degrade too much? how long do they last?

October 22, 2008
5:35 pm
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Matt
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Just leave them in Neill. They break down slowly over a few weeks. You could add a net bag to the filter if you don't want them in the tank.

Cake or death?
October 22, 2008
5:37 pm
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keith565
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i used to use humaquat but my tap water has so much buffer in, it took a lot to get the ph down, so now i use rainwater which is perfect for the wild bettas. i change my almond leaves when they disintergrate but leave the oak leaves in as they tend not to disintergrate as much.

October 22, 2008
5:56 pm
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ndc
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think they might look quite good in the tank anyways ? ill have to get some to try

October 25, 2008
3:12 pm
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Haji Badaruddin
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Hi guys,

Last month,i use some peat soil which i placed in a mesh bag and soak them in a few tanks.I have also collected some leaf litters from the area ie brownorum habitat in Matang.I then transfered my albimarginata which is wild caught from Malinau,Kalimanatan.Two days later ... i lost abt 8 tanks of these albis.In total thats about 160 albis /sad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad.gif" /> .

Initially i thought it was due to poisoning ....... but the other tanks are doing OK.My suspect is viral ....... The fish was initally seen hanging aimlessly on the water level.The next day they are all gone.I had to do major disinfection for all the tanks in that section.A lot of work!!! /wacko.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wacko:" border="0" alt="wacko.gif" />

Lessons learned,i will still use these peat soil but i would try on only a few tanks first before i do it to the other tanks.

I would like to get some feedback on the disadvantages of using the pH down /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> .I know they won't work if you are using hardwater.But considering i am using rainwater,so far no problems for me here.

Thanks.

October 26, 2008
8:29 am
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ndc
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the only reason i dont like ph down etc is because its a lot of work to keep everything stable - i use a hose from the tap for the 400 litre tank which gets abot 150 litres changed every week - i cant put this in buckets then add the ph down so the ph would fluctuate greatly in the tank - if it was a amall tank then i think it would be ok

October 26, 2008
11:35 am
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Eyrie
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If I remember correctly the problem with pH down products is that, although they lower the pH, they don't affect the hardness of the water. Hardness is more important due to osmotic regulation.

Any comments?

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October 26, 2008
12:00 pm
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keith565
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QUOTE (Eyrie @ Oct 26 2008, 11:18 AM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
If I remember correctly the problem with pH down products is that, although they lower the pH, they don't affect the hardness of the water. Hardness is more important due to osmotic regulation.

Any comments?


you are spot on, the problem is with the buffers in the water, ph down and such can drop ph, but have no buffers to keep it there, so if you have water like mine, full of disolved metals and minerals, the ph will creep back up in hours, thus stressing the fish.

October 26, 2008
12:20 pm
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oaken
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QUOTE (Eyrie @ Oct 26 2008, 12:18 PM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
If I remember correctly the problem with pH down products is that, although they lower the pH, they don't affect the hardness of the water. Hardness is more important due to osmotic regulation.

Any comments?

They will certainly affect the kH-value, but not dH.

One thing I think a lot of aquarists look past is the conductivity of the water. A lot of fish breed during the rainy season, and rain water has a very low conductivity, so using RO-water and rain water is usually a good trigger to get fish to breed. And most of these soft water fish we all like to keep and breed comes from waters with extremely low conductivity in general. This was a bit off topic, though.

Haji: Personally I always boil peat before I add it to the tank, just to be safe.. I do use it as a substrate in many tanks without any problems though.

October 26, 2008
1:50 pm
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mickthefish
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i might be way off here as i've not used this stuff for years, but i sort of remember one brand that lowered the ph fine but left the water high in phosphates which i believe is no good if you like plants.

mick

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