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Betta Foerschi Complex
June 18, 2008
4:17 pm
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Matt
Málaga, Spain
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This complex currently contains 4 species; B. foerschi, B. mandor, B. rubra and B. strohi. Now from what I´ve read it seems that the breeding strategy of these fish is somewhere inbetween that of bubblenesting and mouthbrooding Betta species. So-o I´m hoping that some of you Betta nuts can shed some light on the following:

- which variants of B. foerschi do you consider likely to be assigned separate species status at some point? Why?
- can this species be kept in groups?
- when spawning does B. foerschi conduct it´s business at the water surface?
- does the male or female catch the eggs in the anal fin?
- does the female get involved in egg spitting as with other mouthbrooders or does the male just pick the eggs up directly?
- are the answers to these breeding questions true for all foerschi complex species?

Sorry for all the questions. Just trying to obtain accurate information for the knowledge base and this is one species where there´s hardly anything in English available. Thanks in advance! /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Cake or death?
June 20, 2008
9:51 am
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keith565
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sorry Matt, not had any experience with the foerschi group (until now) /ph34r.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":ph34r:" border="0" alt="ph34r.gif" /> , and these are still a bit young to get breeding (as you know) /biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />
but i will be watching them like a hawk when they do get up to breeding size /thumbs_up.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumbsup:" border="0" alt="thumbs_up.gif" /> /thumbs_up.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumbsup:" border="0" alt="thumbs_up.gif" />

June 21, 2008
12:39 am
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Matt
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Hehehe no worries Keith! /ph34r.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":ph34r:" border="0" alt="ph34r.gif" /> Haji? Miranda? Niko?

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June 25, 2008
1:02 pm
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Matt
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Shameless bump! *waits for Mick to be offended by Betta thread.... /tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />

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June 25, 2008
1:12 pm
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mickthefish
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Betta's Betta's Betta's, nice to see in someone elses tanks. /tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />
mind i did breed B. foerschi a year ago, boring sods they are. /thumbs_down.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumbsdn:" border="0" alt="thumbs_down.gif" />

mick

June 25, 2008
1:35 pm
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andy rushworth
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June 25, 2008
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Rather than being negative why not stick to fish that you are interested in ? Betta's are wonderful and of great interest to some of us /angry.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":angry:" border="0" alt="angry.gif" />

June 25, 2008
1:37 pm
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Matt
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I like them too Botty. Mick isn´t trying to offend anyone so no need to get upset. He´s also kept pretty much every species under the sun so please chill. We´re a pretty relaxed lot on here. You may also notice that I was winding Mick up hence his post. /tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />

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June 25, 2008
1:40 pm
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andy rushworth
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June 25, 2008
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Sorry Matt /wub.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wub:" border="0" alt="wub.gif" />

June 25, 2008
1:42 pm
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Matt
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No probs /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

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June 25, 2008
2:13 pm
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mickthefish
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botty, it was not meant to offend anyone, to each his own.
but i still think they're boring. /laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="Laugh" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

mick

June 25, 2008
2:14 pm
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dunc
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Matt is a bit of a Betta geek himself /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

June 25, 2008
2:21 pm
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Matt
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Ahem.... /blush.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blush:" border="0" alt="blush.gif" />

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June 27, 2008
10:21 am
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andy rushworth
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QUOTE(mickthefish @ Jun 25 2008, 02:56 PM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
botty, it was not meant to offend anyone, to each his own.
but i still think they're boring. /laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="Laugh" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

mick


Having the last word doesnt make you more powerful ,just a bit of an i know best type of person /laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="Laugh" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

June 27, 2008
11:54 am
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mickthefish
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if you enjoy keeping/breeding them goodonyer, i personally don't but ive got fish in my tanks that you probably would'nt touch with a barge pole.
as i said to each his own.

mick

June 27, 2008
1:58 pm
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dunc
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You have kept Betta in the past haven't ya Mick?

June 27, 2008
2:16 pm
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Matt
Málaga, Spain
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Ladies, gents, can we please return to the original thread topic? I was trying to get hold of some info on B. foerschi complex species for the KB if I remember right... /laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="Laugh" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

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July 1, 2008
3:43 am
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Haji Badaruddin
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I have kept rubra and mandor.The strohi and foerschi i previous have but only for a while.They were only at my place during "transit".The only species that i managed to breed is the rubras.

I have recorded some breeding from my rubras back in July,2007.Here's the link http://www.bettasocietymalaysi.....com.my/for...hp?f=7&t=29

Thanks.

July 1, 2008
9:12 am
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Matt
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Great thread Haji, I recognise some of those pictures! /tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" /> Guess we'll have to wait for someone who's bred foerschi before completing that profile. /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

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July 4, 2008
2:40 pm
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Haji Badaruddin
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Hi Matt,

According to Tan & Ng:Fighting Fishes of Singapore,Malaysia and Brunei,the argument used by Witte & Schmidt (1992) to place rubra in its own species group is inconclusive.The prime character used by Witte & Schmidt (1992:325) to delineate the betta rubra group was the triangular patch beneath the eye,which is a weak charater as this mark is part of the chin bar extending to the opercle.And from the distinctiveness of the two vertical bars on the opercle and stockiness of the head profile of the rubra,Tan & Ng concluded that it fits better in the foerschi group.

I kept the rubras (abt 30 - 40 adults) together in one 4 ft tank with plenty of bogwood and java moss.I also mixed my p.allani in some of these tanks.In some of the tanks,i mixed my ideii fry/juvs together with the rubras.So far i do not have any problem housing them together.

I took these photos this afternoon.

IMG_1542rubraspawnsign.jpgImage Enlarger


A pair of rubra can spawn twice in one month.

Betta rubra prefers to spawn in "cave like" environment.You can use pvc pipes/connectors,bamboo or broken pottery.They will spawn inside these places.After the embrace,the female will linger in a trance (as shown in photo) ie with the head pointing downwards.The eggs produced from this spawn will then be pick up by the male.The male will pick up the eggs from the anal fins.However the male also pick up eggs scattered on the bottom(as shown photo below).

IMG_1523rubrapickingeggfrombottomsi.jpgImage Enlarger


During spawning,the female is darkly colored.

Occassionally,the female will have a go at the eggs.Out of 10 she will eat on average 2.There is no egg tossing.For each embrace,my female rubra produced between 3 -5 eggs.This process lasted between 1/2 day to one full day.

Now i have all of the foerschi group(rubra,strohi,mandor and foerschi) ...... the only data on breeding that i have is only the rubra.The rest i will update later.

Thanks.

July 4, 2008
2:56 pm
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Matt
Málaga, Spain
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Fascinating information and pictures Haji (do you prefer to be called Eddy by the way?). /cool.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="B)" border="0" alt="cool.gif" /> Judging by the spawning strategy rubra would certainly appear to deserve its place in the foerschi complex ie. no egg tossing although it's interesting that it tends to spawn in a cave as I'd read that foerschi spawns near the surface. Looking forward very much to your updates mate. /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

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