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Betta livida from North Selangor
April 12, 2011
12:04 pm
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Stefan
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Paul was kind enough to give me with 2 livida he collected recently. Sadly both turned out to be females (my mistake) so he's again kind enough to provide me with his breeding pair. It's a golden oldie to me, and one of my favourite fish to work with; they are absolutely brilliant fish! I have no photos yet as I'm letting them settle in. I'll post some when I have made them, and hopefully they will give me another good breeding experience and subsequently the oppertunity to re-introduce them in the hobby.

April 12, 2011
3:18 pm
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Matt
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This is one of the most endangered Betta spp. right? Heard bad things about the situation in Selangor...

Cake or death?
April 12, 2011
3:35 pm
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Stefan
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I'd guess so, yeah. The UICN Red List last update's from a while ago. My plan is to keep providing the hobby with this fish, in Europe, the UK, wherever. Sadly all my previous ones that I'd spread around seem to have gone into oblivion and that saddens me.

April 13, 2011
4:06 pm
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hachge
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No I still have a trio but no fry lol

April 13, 2011
5:44 pm
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Stefan
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QUOTE (hachge @ Apr 13 2011, 05:49 PM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
No I still have a trio but no fry lol

Excellent! Which generation are yours Herve? You got them from me?

April 14, 2011
9:34 am
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hachge
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No but from a german guy some years back and some generations in my tanks

April 14, 2011
7:32 pm
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Stefan
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Cool! I'll start a fresh lineage then /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

April 14, 2011
8:32 pm
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TorbenL
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great ...whenever you have surplus fish...well you know 😉

April 15, 2011
12:15 am
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Stefan
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QUOTE (TorbenL @ Apr 14 2011, 10:15 PM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
great ...whenever you have surplus fish...well you know 😉

You almost don't have to ask anymore /biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />

April 15, 2011
6:21 am
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TorbenL
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QUOTE (Stefan @ Apr 15 2011, 01:58 AM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
You almost don't have to ask anymore /biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />

and I'm so very greatful !

April 15, 2011
8:37 am
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Stefan
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QUOTE (TorbenL @ Apr 15 2011, 08:04 AM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
and I'm so very greatful !

Nah don't worry about it; you're always on to-get list. /thumbs_up.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumbsup:" border="0" alt="thumbs_up.gif" />

April 15, 2011
9:57 am
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C.Way
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wow, the first ever special species that I manage to breed before my collection of the rest of coccina group started, I miss it a lot, but according to local keepers, those habitats are gone...

wish to see their photos /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

April 15, 2011
10:13 am
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Stefan
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QUOTE (C.Way @ Apr 15 2011, 11:40 AM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
wow, the first ever special species that I manage to breed before my collection of the rest of coccina group started, I miss it a lot, but according to local keepers, those habitats are gone...

wish to see their photos /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Apparently they're still there; mine were collected from the wild only recently. But their habitats are definitely disappearing sadly. I'll keep them until death and keep them going; they've always been a favourite of mine along with tussyae.

I'm expecting the pair to arrive early next week and I'll photograph them once they've settled in. The 2 damsels are doing great in that tank just now, and the water is very dark coloured - just the way they like it /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Then later on, in a few months time I expect - if all goes well, I'll do the same with persephone.

What red species do you still keep C.Way?

April 15, 2011
10:25 am
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C.Way
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QUOTE (Stefan @ Apr 15 2011, 05:56 PM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
Apparently they're still there; mine were collected from the wild only recently. But their habitats are definitely disappearing sadly. I'll keep them until death and keep them going; they've always been a favourite of mine along with tussyae.

I'm expecting the pair to arrive early next week and I'll photograph them once they've settled in. The 2 damsels are doing great in that tank just now, and the water is very dark coloured - just the way they like it /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Then later on, in a few months time I expect - if all goes well, I'll do the same with persephone.

What red species do you still keep C.Way?

interesting, wish you luck on spawning them /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> , will wait for your photos /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

for me, I've quit fish keeping for a few months, recently decide to return to the hobby, have a tough time cleaning up the mess left behind when I quit...

I've kept and spawn almost all species in Betta Coccina group, only B. burdigala gave me good result, the rest died(lack of maintainance due to traveling too often), B. Uberis and B. Palangkaraya is the only two species that I have yet to get my hands on

Currently got myself 2 pairs of Paros Ornaticauda, wish I could spawn them soon, have amazed me by their coloration and pattern within a week in my tank /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

April 15, 2011
11:06 am
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Stefan
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As am I /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Yeah sp. Palangkaraya seemed to be a one-off import and that was that. I still have a wild trio that give me a headache: they spawn 2-3x a week and the eggs won't last for 12hrs. Can't find out which one eats them (1m + 2f). When the 2nd male was still alive that never happened with him. Need to raise them as well. Maybe start working with breeding tanks where I put in just a pair and then remove the parents (or just leave the male)? I'll figure it out; they are an absolutely brilliant species (can't wait to see them described; my guess it there'll be one or more papers dealing with multiple new spp. like they did in 2005 and 2006).

Anyway; you kept miniopinna as well? They seem impossible to come by these days, and are a species I'd like to keep myself as well (albeit I consider them a different population of persephone rather than a seperate entity).

You should really try to get uberis; they are very nice and easy to spawn. Glad to read you're getting back into fishkeeping and good luck with the Paros; I'm sure you'll manage. Did you collect them yourself?

By the way; I've yet to see a female livida with a blotch; would anyone have a pic?

April 15, 2011
4:41 pm
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C.Way
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QUOTE (Stefan @ Apr 15 2011, 06:49 PM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
As am I /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Yeah sp. Palangkaraya seemed to be a one-off import and that was that. I still have a wild trio that give me a headache: they spawn 2-3x a week and the eggs won't last for 12hrs. Can't find out which one eats them (1m + 2f). When the 2nd male was still alive that never happened with him. Need to raise them as well. Maybe start working with breeding tanks where I put in just a pair and then remove the parents (or just leave the male)? I'll figure it out; they are an absolutely brilliant species (can't wait to see them described; my guess it there'll be one or more papers dealing with multiple new spp. like they did in 2005 and 2006).

Anyway; you kept miniopinna as well? They seem impossible to come by these days, and are a species I'd like to keep myself as well (albeit I consider them a different population of persephone rather than a seperate entity).

You should really try to get uberis; they are very nice and easy to spawn. Glad to read you're getting back into fishkeeping and good luck with the Paros; I'm sure you'll manage. Did you collect them yourself?

By the way; I've yet to see a female livida with a blotch; would anyone have a pic?

Use to have the opportunity to get my hand on B. Palangkaraya, but due to the fact that it is not describe yet, plus the locality some what sounds like those of B. Uberis/Burdigala, I gave up getting them, or perhaps later when the price goes down I might get a pair(I'm still a student with no work/income)

Spawning every 3 days seems very "standardize" once they settle in the tank, most of my Coccina collection spawn within 3 days after introduction to my tank, and the cycle continue on if they are eggs eater, very headache, the sames apply to my previous paros "blue-line"

From hear say, B. Miniopinna seems to be the same as B. Persephone, but I'm not too sure of it, not available in the trade as well, but would definitely get my hand on a pair if there is a chance to

I'll be collecting B. Persephone and B. Uberis from a friend of mine tomorrow, I could recall getting a pair of Burdigala at the same time when my friend get his B. Uberis, now that I could compare both sp closely(now F1 of our original pairs of both species)

B. Livida's blotch is rather random, some had blotch on one side of the body while some don't have any at all, from my past experience, all my 6 pieces of F1(3 pairs) happens to have blotch when they were juvinile, but the blotch disappeared after they grew into adult, not sure what happens to them as I passed it to the person who introduce me B. Livida about 4 years ago

April 15, 2011
5:04 pm
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Stefan
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sp. Palangkaraya comes from the Sabangau peat swamp, not sure how close that is to the uberis/burdigala locations though. The price will go down with better availability. They're definitely a new species and I strongly suspect they sit inbetween uberis/burdigala and tussyae.
I'll try with a seperate spawning tank; that should work. I'm indeed getting a headache of them ha ha! But that's fishkeeping; it's not always easy, and that's a good thing. Makes it exciting and interesting.

Yeah; their head shape (miniopinna/persephone) isn't interesting (plasticity probably) and pelvic fin colour is variable in both species (pers. obs. from observing both species). Still I'd like to have miniopinna just for the sake of it.

What did you find when comparing both uberis and burdigala up close? I've only kept the former, but judging from pics they look superficially more or less the same.

As for the livida blotch; my old 2 males (F1): one had a blotch, the other didn't and never had it. If they go the coccina (Sumatra population at least) way they'll loose the blotch which then makes way for a green flank. I was, however, referring to not having yet seen a livida female with a blotch. It seems to be more absent than present (I've seen a lot of livida up to date). I'd just like to see it, that's all.

April 15, 2011
5:48 pm
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C.Way
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QUOTE (Stefan @ Apr 16 2011, 12:47 AM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
sp. Palangkaraya comes from the Sabangau peat swamp, not sure how close that is to the uberis/burdigala locations though. The price will go down with better availability. They're definitely a new species and I strongly suspect they sit inbetween uberis/burdigala and tussyae.
I'll try with a seperate spawning tank; that should work. I'm indeed getting a headache of them ha ha! But that's fishkeeping; it's not always easy, and that's a good thing. Makes it exciting and interesting.

Yeah; their head shape (miniopinna/persephone) isn't interesting (plasticity probably) and pelvic fin colour is variable in both species (pers. obs. from observing both species). Still I'd like to have miniopinna just for the sake of it.

What did you find when comparing both uberis and burdigala up close? I've only kept the former, but judging from pics they look superficially more or less the same.

As for the livida blotch; my old 2 males (F1): one had a blotch, the other didn't and never had it. If they go the coccina (Sumatra population at least) way they'll loose the blotch which then makes way for a green flank. I was, however, referring to not having yet seen a livida female with a blotch. It seems to be more absent than present (I've seen a lot of livida up to date). I'd just like to see it, that's all.

Haha, true, the challenge of fish keeping, the rewards keeps the whole world silence(from complains XD)

Same here, keen on getting both persephone and miniopinna, can only hope that those who had it doesn't mix them together and sell as B. Persephone

Cann't recall much of the difference between B. Burdigala and B. Uberis since I last compared them bout one and a half year ago, too long to recall that

I will try to ask a keepr who had both Livida "Tanjong Malim" and "Sepang" to get some photos of his F1/F2, they were randomly having the spot...B. Coccina too could have the blotch, not too long ago when I still kept B. Coccina, there are few pieces with spot while the green flank overshadow the spot when they flare

April 15, 2011
7:19 pm
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Stefan
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I think the majority of people who get their hands on those species (pers/min) will know enough to keep them seperated and not to mix them. I truly feel, from my personal observations (I saw miniopinna in 2006), that when mixing the two, there's no way to tell them apart.

It would be great if you could get some pics from friend and upload them! I don't think there's any different between the TM and Sepang specimens, though - not from what I've seen. Maybe it could even be the two populations can mix when the areas are flooded? I don't have the geography in my head right now, though.

Here are some pics I find nice:

[Image Can Not Be Found]

Holotype

livida.jpgImage Enlarger

Paratype or non-type

[Image Can Not Be Found]

Without a spot

Dscn4146.jpgImage Enlarger

Without a spot but very colourful (never seen them like that)

[Image Can Not Be Found]

My old F1 male from Tanjung Malim, shortly after arrival, before his fins began to grow. He looked way better after a while!!

April 15, 2011
8:16 pm
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Stefan
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I've read that livida is still going strong in the IGL in Germany as well; excellent!! That does me good. I'll try to flood the UK then, and northern Europe, and...?

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