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Betta Sp. palangkaraya
July 11, 2009
11:49 am
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oaken
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Figured I'd make a topic here and contribute with my pictures of this new and interesting species.

Here's a male:

CRW_6229.jpgImage Enlarger

And heres a dominant female:

CRW_6216.jpgImage Enlarger

The stripes that are visible on the females body are actually quite visible on the males too, depending on the mode of course. Which is something I find quite interesting. Haven't really seen that before.

July 11, 2009
12:12 pm
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Matt
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/wub.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wub:" border="0" alt="wub.gif" />

Stefan sent me a couple of papers last night, one of which is an old Horst Linke article about the foerschi group. There is an image of a female sp. 'Tangkiling' which has a similar pattern to that. Let me see if I can extract it...

Cake or death?
July 11, 2009
12:18 pm
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Matt
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Here it is:

Attached files

[Image Can Not Be Found]

Cake or death?
July 11, 2009
3:02 pm
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oaken
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QUOTE (Matt @ Jul 11 2009, 02:01 PM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
Here it is:

Hm, so there is an undescribed species from Tangkiling? I always thought that was just a foerschi.

Btw, did you get any wiser on how to tell mandor and foerschi apart yet? /laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="Laugh" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

July 12, 2009
11:22 am
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Matt
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Well according to the Linke article it is a separate, undescribed 'species' based on the female patterning as above, the shape of the caudal fin in males and body colouration. Stefan also believes this is so but also expressed some reservations about whether this group should be separated at all because they're all so similar.

According to the article the main differences are:

B. foerschi; caudal fin rounded and unpointed with predominantly blue/green colouration in the body.
B sp. 'Tangkiling'; caudal fin rounded with a slight point and more red/brown colouration in the body.
B. strohi; extended rays in the upper part of the caudal fin with an iridescent border.
B. mandor; extended central rays in the caudal fin with darker, but less intense, blue/green body colouration.

/wacko.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wacko:" border="0" alt="wacko.gif" />

Edit: Stefan also told me that as far as he knows the 'real' foerschi i.e. the one from the type locality hasn't been collected for years and that newer pictures are basically non-existent. I think I'm going to take the profile offline pending images unless anyone objects?

Cake or death?
July 13, 2009
7:13 am
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retro_gk
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Saw the thread on petfrd as well. I'm just going to stick my neck out and say the fish in the OP is closer to B. foerschi than anything from the coccina complex.

July 13, 2009
1:03 pm
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oaken
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Two pictures that shows the fins better. Here you can also see the spots in the fins /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

CRW_6257CRW.jpgImage Enlarger


CRW_6250CRW.jpgImage Enlarger

July 13, 2009
3:16 pm
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Mark Duffill
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Stunning fish Oaken /cool.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="B)" border="0" alt="cool.gif" />

July 13, 2009
8:33 pm
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Daspricey
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Fantastic photos of beautiful fish! /thumbs_up.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumbsup:" border="0" alt="thumbs_up.gif" />

July 14, 2009
1:41 pm
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oaken
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Thanks /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

July 16, 2009
6:37 pm
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Matt
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Now I can see the spots are blue. /tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" /> Beautiful images Gustav. What have you all decided to call this fish as I'll add a profile soon if it's ok to use your pics?

Cake or death?
July 16, 2009
7:26 pm
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oaken
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Betta sp. "Sengalang, Palangkaraya" I think. And yeah go ahead and use whatever pictures you want /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

July 16, 2009
7:48 pm
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Matt
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Awesome, cheers. /biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" /> Is it a confirmed bubble-nester, by the way?

Cake or death?
July 16, 2009
8:13 pm
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oaken
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Yeah /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

August 20, 2009
7:24 am
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Jit
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QUOTE (Matt @ Jul 12 2009, 11:05 AM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well according to the Linke article it is a separate, undescribed 'species' based on the female patterning as above, the shape of the caudal fin in males and body colouration. Stefan also believes this is so but also expressed some reservations about whether this group should be separated at all because they're all so similar.

According to the article the main differences are:

B. foerschi; caudal fin rounded and unpointed with predominantly blue/green colouration in the body.
B sp. 'Tangkiling'; caudal fin rounded with a slight point and more red/brown colouration in the body.
B. strohi; extended rays in the upper part of the caudal fin with an iridescent border.
B. mandor; extended central rays in the caudal fin with darker, but less intense, blue/green body colouration.

/wacko.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wacko:" border="0" alt="wacko.gif" />

Edit: Stefan also told me that as far as he knows the 'real' foerschi i.e. the one from the type locality hasn't been collected for years and that newer pictures are basically non-existent. I think I'm going to take the profile offline pending images unless anyone objects?

I wonder if genetic lineage studies have been done on these closely related species to see if it warrants an actual species or merely described as subspecies.

August 20, 2009
11:21 pm
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Matt
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I'd love to see that kind of study Jit. Writing the species profiles for these was a nightmare and id'ing them still is. /wacko.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wacko:" border="0" alt="wacko.gif" /> I'd also like to know Haji's take on these so will try to summon him from whichever random jungle location he's currently at. /tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />

Cake or death?
August 21, 2009
8:41 am
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Matt
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Gustav how big are your adults if you don't mind me asking?

Cake or death?
August 21, 2009
11:39 am
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oaken
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About 4,5-5 cm TL for the male and slightly over 4 for the female I think /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

August 24, 2009
10:41 pm
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Haji Badaruddin
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Hi Matt,

Interesting specimen ....... looks more to foerschi group but a bubblenester.If you look at goggle earth ..... you can see the close proximity of Palangkaraya and Tangkiling (Both in Central Kalimantan).

I heard about this fish sometime back from a collector in Indonesia ...

Oaken,

Awesome pic!!!

Jit/Rahul,

Fancy meeting you guys here /tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" /> Forget about id ing the fish ....... Just sit back and enjoy the beauty man /happy.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="^_^" border="0" alt="happy.gif" />

August 25, 2009
8:06 am
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retro_gk
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Hey Eddy! The fishkeeping world is a very small place /biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />

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