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Betta sp. Sabangau, Sengalang, Palangkaraya
April 22, 2011
12:45 pm
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Stefan
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Sabangau%20male.jpgImage Enlarger

Sabangau%20female.jpgImage Enlarger

Sabangau_River.jpgImage Enlarger

The peat swamp area they're likely to be found from. Source: http://www.wikimedia.org

They can go by either of the above 3 labels, so I chose to list all 3. I, for one, cannot wait to read the description on this one because new coccina group fishes are rarely discovered these days!

The pair pictured above are wild and received shortly after their discovery in 2009 by Linke et al. They seem to have been imported once or twice back then (?) but never again after so wild ones might have become a bit of a rarity in the hobby today?

I have 1 trio left (1m + 2f) and they taunt me: they spawn once or twice a week at least but shortly after the eggs are gone. I'm thinking of setting up a seperate breeding tank for a pair and then remove one or both parents after spawning.

April 22, 2011
1:31 pm
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C.Way
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wow, amazing piece of ruby, Coccina group betta are simply small and beautiful /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

nice photo /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

April 22, 2011
3:08 pm
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oaken
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Nice pictures. I only have F1's left, 1 male + 3 females. Need to put the male and one of the females in their own tank though. I had a problem similar to the one you describe with persephone, they would spawn but the eggs never seemed to hatch. Or maybe they did, I couldn't get a close look at the nest. Either way I didn't get any fry.

But yeah, there was an import to Sweden but haven't seen them on the lists since then. Don't see them on Aquabid anymore either, where they used to be quite common.

April 22, 2011
3:23 pm
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Stefan
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@ C.Way: Thanks! Yeah this species is really beautiful!

@ Oaken: I forgot to add that not only the eggs are gone, but the nest will be destroyed or completely gone. then he builds a nest at a different place a few days later and so he moves about the tank.

I don't find them anywhere anymore either. That's why I'm so happy I've still got mine - now some F1s would be a nice gift of nature.

April 23, 2011
8:37 am
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Humunuku
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I've kept this species since 2009, but it was not until this year that I got them to reproduce.
I started out with one wild pair, but nothing happened and I lost the female after a while.
Then I got hold of a group of F1's and placed them with the wild male in a 40 cm wide tank with sand and peat substrate, oak- and catappaleaves, bogwood, and a thick layer of Heteranthera zosterifolia and Ceratophyllum demersum. I placed a heater on 26C. After a while i doscovered a nest next to the heater, and now theres fry. It looks like the adults does not predate young ones.
In my case the "stop waiting for it and it wil eventually happen" worked.

April 23, 2011
8:44 am
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Stefan
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Hey that sounds great; well done and let us know how you get on please. I'm setting up a spawning tank for them today: 40 x 30 x 30cm, low water level, lots of leaves on the bottom, a big floating plant and a tube. I'll start by removing the female after spawning and see how that goes. I'm aiming for a pH around 4.5; what pH do you have Humunuku? Do you use peat granules for substrate or another form?

April 23, 2011
10:21 am
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oaken
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Nice to hear about more people still keeping them. Would be nice to read the old thread on petfrd about them. I recall the water I used the first time I bred them had a pH slightly over 5, and I've always found it unecessary to go any lower. However it could possibly affect eggs getting attacked by fungus etc. in some cases? That is, if the pH isn't low enough. Just thinking out loud here. But I think your tank sounds good, Stefan /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
And another random thought: I've never had any problems breeding Betta spp. from the coccina-group as long as you keep the female(s) well conditioned. I've heard of people talking about them having pairs that doesn't "click", but I really do wonder if it's not got to do with other things. Or maybe I've just been lucky every time.

April 23, 2011
10:32 am
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Colin
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I think that Herve still has some that I sent him a couple years ago and possibly Auke too? I also think that Heinrich Bayer has some breeding??? I have never seen them for sale since that time I got them from Singapore in 2009 - shame!

April 23, 2011
12:04 pm
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Stefan
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@ Oaken: Yeah that pH would do great as well. My current batch of peat just lowers it to at least 4.5 so why not make use of that, I thought. I've bred them at 3.5 as well /ohmy.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":o" border="0" alt="ohmy.gif" /> I too believe that a lower pH is better for the eggs.

As for a pair clicking: I'm 'brought up' in Betta and that has always been a piece of the 'how to breed' chapter back then. But I've never found it to be valid up to date.

So the tank is set up with only a bit of water; regular thermometer height, so to speak. Temp will remain 23C but might rise depending on the outside weather (hot!!) - I used to keep and breed coccina species at 22C; less aggression. I've also adde a small ball of peat granules in a...ehm...pantyhose... The light is dim; just the way they like it and this won't be for photos at first anyway. I'm letting the leaves sink first for a bit so I'll introduce a pair tonight or tomorrow. - And I always want to see first wat the heater and temp will do.

@ Colin: I was wondering when you'd chime in /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" /> I think Auke's only got 1 Betta left and that isn't this one. He's not keeping many fish anymore aside from a few Channa. I'm almost the only Dutchman left.

When I've finally succesfully raised some more from this current project I'll box you some Colin.

April 23, 2011
3:48 pm
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Colin
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yeah cool - was one of those species that i regretted selling as soon as they were all gone!

April 23, 2011
3:54 pm
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Stefan
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QUOTE (Colin @ Apr 23 2011, 05:31 PM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
yeah cool - was one of those species that i regretted selling as soon as they were all gone!

Why did you? That was indeed a shame.

April 23, 2011
3:56 pm
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Colin
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just buying and selling them on - expecting fry back at some point lol

April 23, 2011
4:03 pm
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hachge
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Hello you all
I have 9 adults fish a pair WF I bought in Indonesia with 8/10 sub adult fish and from your fish Colin about 20 youngs.In convention no one wanted these fish so i keep them like all the small red Bettas and some pairs eat the fry some other one no.No agressivity even at 26/27
C.Nice fish easy to keep.

April 23, 2011
4:49 pm
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Colin
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Wow, I can't believe no one wanted them at the IGL!

April 23, 2011
5:09 pm
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Stefan
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@ Colin: I'm doing my best here /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

@ Herve: What is WF? In Germany it stands for wild caught. 26-27C seems a bit high; it's probably cooler in the wild?

Currently the temp in the breeding tank is 22C; let's see what it does in the next 15 hours.

April 23, 2011
8:45 pm
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Paul J
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QUOTE (hachge @ Apr 23 2011, 04:46 PM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hello you all
I have 9 adults fish a pair WF I bought in Indonesia with 8/10 sub adult fish and from your fish Colin about 20 youngs.In convention no one wanted these fish so i keep them like all the small red Bettas and some pairs eat the fry some other one no.No agressivity even at 26/27
C.Nice fish easy to keep.

Hi Herve

I was stood next to you and i didn't see these fish - i would have bought them.

How are the miniopina? Mine have eggs so i was lucky to get a pair.

April 23, 2011
9:14 pm
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Stefan
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QUOTE (Paul J @ Apr 23 2011, 10:28 PM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi Herve

I was stood next to you and i didn't see these fish - i would have bought them.

How are the miniopina? Mine have eggs so i was lucky to get a pair.

I'm glad you're showing an interest in this species as well Paul. If you'd like I can out you on the definitely to receive list if I'm succesful with my new breeding approach, as communicated.

Congrats on your succes with miniopinna. Maybe we should start a seperate thread on that species to it's easier to trace all that will be said? Just a thought /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

April 23, 2011
9:15 pm
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Humunuku
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QUOTE (Stefan @ Apr 23 2011, 09:27 AM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm aiming for a pH around 4.5; what pH do you have Humunuku? Do you use peat granules for substrate or another form?


I rember that the only info available when I got them was that the pH of the locality where they where found was pH 4.7-4.8. This was supposedly first hand info from the collectors.
Current pH is 4.3, but it may have been different at the time of spawn. I've topped with "new" water since. The water level has been 10-15 cm, depending on evaporation.
The peat for the substrate is leftovers from my peat-water production. I us ca. 5cm unfertilised garden peat in 10-L cans that I leave with water for a week or so. It looses some of its pH reducing effect after having used the same peat four to five times. The peat can then be used as substrate.

April 24, 2011
6:22 am
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hachge
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I'm taking a few days off I will see once back home for the miniopina.When the weather will be warmer Paul i can send you fish if you want.
Stefan this is it wild fish,They are available in Indonesia,but very few people order them.

April 24, 2011
7:45 am
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Stefan
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@ Humunuku: Cheers for that; I remember that or a similar story. Of course the pH varies in the course of a year. They did well on pH 3.5 as well. I'll measure the pH in the breeding today after I've topped with with another litre or two.

@ Herve: Ah thanks - 'wild fish'. I wonder why not many people order them. Is it still cold in France then Herve? It's h o t here! My living room right now is 24.5C /biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" /> Anyway; do you notice males being of different colour tones? e.g. My three males were green, purple and red respectively so each looked quite different colour-wise.

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