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Brackish gobies
July 14, 2014
5:07 pm
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mikev
NYC
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Any species to recommend? The criteria is (1) small: <2" (2) high end salinity, 1.015+ (3) hopefully breedable.

It seems that the initial options I was thinking about like mudskippers and knight gobies need considerably lower salinity (Stigmatogobius sadanunidio needs 1.005?) , but there ought to be something else...

July 14, 2014
6:42 pm
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Ferrika
Brunswick / Germany
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Hi Mike,

some Mugilogobius may correspond with your criteria. And some sea ​​water gobies too.

Knight gobies are very, very, very snappy. This you can, except with blennies and pufferfish, with nothing socialize.

greets Jutta
July 14, 2014
7:17 pm
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mikev
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Hi Jutta,

Quite possibly... any particular species you can think of? (One more detail: I want to play with p.cyanodorsalis.... and looking for tankmate. I suspect you are correct about knight gobies. ) The other option was Periophthalmus novemradiatus ... will they handle high salinity, do you know? Of course something like mugilo would be ideal.

Oh... btw I have some rubro fry.

July 18, 2014
10:32 am
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Ferrika
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Hi Mike,

congrats for the rubro-fry! Things come to those who wait well. :-)

 

P. novemradiatus can handle seawater-salinity. No problem, because whose main habitat is the coastal.

 
But how big should the aquarium be to make the P. cyanodorsalis sufficiently large swimming space?
 
For the Mugilogobius I have no idea for a particular species.
greets Jutta
July 18, 2014
12:55 pm
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coelacanth
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I'd be wary about predation towards the cyanodorsalis (of adult fish or eggs) with any gobies. My experience of this beautiful little fish is that they will delight just on their own, and they're in enough demand that any fry will be eagerly accepted.

July 18, 2014
4:22 pm
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mikev
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The worry is mine too, but I know that Jutta keeps pseudomugils with rhinogobius successfully and I tried this and similar combos myself too... doable.

Egg predation I'm not worried about -- gobies are just not good in taking eggs off a mop... predation on the adults is something to be careful with.... I would guess that (sorry I don't know the names) saltwater gobies that are symbiotic with shrimps would be safe, if the salinity matches?

Fall-back option is nerite snails, i always wanted to see what happens with them in saltwater.... maybe this is all that is needed for breeding?

Tank size: 5g is actually sufficient ... not with any tankmates of course. I was hoping for 2.5g initially. The reason I'm asking is not for this fish (I have them as good-looking eggs now)... but thinking that if they do well and breed in 4 months I may feel like a more serious saltwater tank then.... for now it is single-species tank like I do with most other blue eyes (I keep 10 species or so.. cyanos are the only one I never kept, being afraid of salt.)

Jutta, thanks for the P. novemradiatus info.... Frank has a soft spot for them so almost every time I go to his place I see them.... and always feel the temptation.
(I don't think the photo shows the species he actually has, but never mind for now.)

As for rubros: Thanks! I need to write this up and ask for your opinion. I definitely screwed up somehow ... lost >50% in the first few days, but perhaps you will know just what has happened.

My current problem btw is to learn about saltwater more and find a biofilter somewhere...... surprisingly problems with this too.

July 20, 2014
5:55 pm
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mikev
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Well, I have one cyano fry swimming around now :D but getting into seafood was not a smart idea... it took two hours to figure out how to fill up a 5g tank.

Sure I'm ignorant, but I already feel the pain that is coming. :(

And I have no idea what else can go into the tank.... will nerite snails survive at 1.017? .... what kind of algae can survive .... etc.

July 21, 2014
2:02 pm
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coelacanth
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Why are you pinning it at that salinity specifically? With cyanos I used to just chuck in a handful or two of salt, they'll take pure fresh as long as it's alkaline but were quite happy from "a bit of salt" all the way up to full marine The salinity of the habitat will change noticeably twice a day, and dramatically so I'd imagine during the rainy season.

July 21, 2014
2:46 pm
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mikev
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Because a couple of people who are currently the most serious rainbow people in N/A insist that it is the proper way to maintain them, otherwise the fish health suffers and they do not breed ... :(

I don't know myself what is true and what is not but it is probably prudent to follow their recommendation for now and experiment with freshwater in 4 months if/when the fish breeds.

(Similar statements were made about a p.signifer strain I keep and they seem to be untrue....IME they take fresh and I do not see any diff with adding "a bit of salt"... so I have a strong suspicion that it is you who is correct. Still, following them for now, I need to grow the fish before experimenting.

And I would sure prefer you to be correct.. using mostly freshwater would save both money and time.)


One observation on saltwater in general: I wonder why people do not use TDS meters instead of hydrometers... easier and more precise.

July 21, 2014
8:43 pm
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BillT
Eugene, Oregon
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I wonder why people do not use TDS meters instead of hydrometers… easier and more precise.

I don't know why either.

 

But a TDS meter is basically a conductivity meter. It measures the inverse of resistance across a couple of electrodes in the probe and uses a built in function to translate to TDS (possibly with a temperature correction). The accuracy of the TDS meter will depend upon the particular salt mix used and its similarity to the that which the TDS meter's calculation was based upon (different salts contribute differently to the conductivity the meter reads).

A hydrometer works based on density (grams of solids in the water).

A salinity refractometer (which I use for certain things and is very easy to use) works in the changes in the optical properties of the water that bend the light path through it.

 

I compare the different methods with solutions I make up (like a gram of salt in a liter) to figure out what a reading in a particular method means to a known solution in the range I am interested in.

Bill Trevarrow [email protected]
July 21, 2014
8:53 pm
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mikev
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The accuracy of the TDS meter will depend upon the particular salt mix used

Very likely albeit I suspect that all sea water mixes are similar enough... besides nearly everyone uses Instant Ocean. There will be also an extra value coming from top (but not for me -- I use pure R/O).

Anyway, I experimented a little and now know that TDS=4500 is the setting I need. Then I tossed the hydrometer.

July 23, 2014
11:09 pm
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mikev
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Slightly OFT but I'm seafood-ignorant and curious:

What happens to artemia in salt-water tank?

It does not seem to die and I see some shrimplets that are larger than newborns and the fry appears unable to eat them. I'm feeding the tank with Sera Micron too.... is it something that shrimp can eat or they will starve to death?

(No, I do not want to really raise sea monkeys ... but am I doing just this?)

July 24, 2014
1:14 am
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BillT
Eugene, Oregon
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My guess is that they would survive.

I raise many young danio sps in brackish water (10,500.0 µS) because the fish do OK and the salt water rotifers and brine shrimp larvae survive and are present to eat continuously.

I have also had a few BS nauplii get into my rotifer bucket. They grew up eating either the rotifers or the algae paste the rotifers get fed.

I think the BS will get anything they can filter out of the water and get into their mouths. I am not familiar with Sera Micron but it sounds like it is small, so I would guess they would eat it.

How much food they would require to survive and grow and what they would get in your tank are other questions.

Bill Trevarrow [email protected]
July 24, 2014
5:19 am
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mikev
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I guess we'll see.... Sera Micron is a powder food that I use, in particular, for newborn danios....it seems to work for all fry that does not insist on live food.
Some shrimplets seem to be 3x the newborn size now and too large for the fish fry.

Brackish danios: an interesting idea. I'd guess that this would work with rainbows too, even softwater species have pretty high salt tolerance and cyanos are not the only species that may venture into brackish or even seawater naturally, sigs do this too.

Could you please translate 10,500.0 µS for me? (ppt or gravity)

July 24, 2014
5:39 am
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BillT
Eugene, Oregon
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Could you please translate 10,500.0 µS for me? (ppt or gravity)

As I recall it is about 1.005 gm/ml.

Bill Trevarrow [email protected]
July 24, 2014
6:57 pm
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mikev
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Thanks.

I'll probably bother with a couple of questions by email sometimes soon.


BTW, I am up to 16 hatches now, this looks promising.

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