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Gastromyzon spp.
March 23, 2010
6:18 pm
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Matt
Málaga, Spain
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Is there any way to sex them?

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March 23, 2010
7:13 pm
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Mark Duffill
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Taken from "Borneo Suckers"

Gastromyzon borneensis
Sexually mature males had heavy tuberculation on postero-ventral part of body slightly larger and more tuberculate secondry rostrum.

Gastromyzon punctulatus
Mature fishes of both sexes had small tubercles on dorsal surfaces on head and pectoral fins, tubercules largest and most dense on tip of snout.

Gastromyzon fasciatus
Mature fishes of both sexes had small tubercles on dorsal surfaces of head pectoral fins, and sometimes on and anterior rays of pelvic fins, males have dense pathces of small tubercles on dorsal surface of anterior most pectoral fin rays.

Gastromyzon contractus
Males have dense patches of small conical tubicles on dorsal surface of anterior most pectoral rays.

Gastromyzon megalepis
Males have dense patches of small conical tubicles on dorsal surface of anterior most pectoral rays.

Gastromyzon ctenocephalus
Male holotype has dense patches of small conical tubicles on dorsal surface of anterior most pectoral fin rays, as well as ctenoid tubicles, on dorso lateral part of head and on pectoral fin base. The female specimens lack ctenoid tubercles and dense patches of small tubercles on pectoral fin; but have numerous small conical tubercles widely scattered on dorsal surface of head and anterior-most portion of body.

Gastromyzon danumensis
Sexually mature males did not have tubercles on postero-ventral part of body, males have larger and longer tuberculated secondary rostrum.

Other than that females would be slightly larger/plumper than males.

March 23, 2010
11:49 pm
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torso
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you are right.
but it's much easier than that at least with the 7 species I have. females show a "higher/taller" dorsum, they are always larger. and males have that "edge" head-to-pectroral fin, I call it "the-hanger-effect".
condition is: a size near the SL. but it works with ctenocephalus, farragus, ocellatus, scitulus, stellatus, viriosus, zebrinus
may be it's easier with some pics
the second picture with cteno shows a pair fighting for dominance. the male is going to loose and is already changing colours back to normal before the end of the fight. females normally are the dominant specimen in adult life.
the ventral sight shows ocellatus.
sorry for the disorder. didn't find the button for changing places.

Attached files

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March 24, 2010
9:18 am
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Matt
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Very clear in those pics Charles, thanks! Of the ventral shots the top one is female? Interesting you say females are generally dominant as the opposite has been observed in Beaufortia - do they tend to occupy the best feeding spots?

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March 24, 2010
11:12 am
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torso
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yes a female on the top
every species is a little diffrerent in temperament: stellatus are of the "smooth" kind. the combination with the best fighters - cteneocephalus - gives very inteersting observations. I have kept them with ocellatus - the most "social" species and now seperately. ocellatus and farragus are very similar, females very large. all in all every genus and species is at least slightly different in behaviour. therefore I don't keep gastromyzon together with p cheni or sewellia.
as I feed not on a special spot I can't judge. but the large specimen just push away smaller ones on the place they are eating at the moment. good to see when tablets are given. they just hold this place by shere presence. gastromyzon species have no problems to share an offered glass with algae on it. sewellia and others do have this problem. seems that the dominance question is then still virulent.
in nature the constellation is different

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gastromyzonbiotope11.wmv (8.4 MB) 

March 24, 2010
11:42 am
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Matt
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Ok great, thanks for the info Charles - what do you mean by "smooth"? Peaceful?

Also have I identified these correctly?

G. farragus -

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G. ocellatus -

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But this one is confusing -

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Does G. farragus ever show blue/purple colouration in the caudal fin? All G. ocellatus I've seen appear to.

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March 24, 2010
5:41 pm
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torso
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gentle, not rough. gastromyzon are in a way all peaceful and self-conscious
yes all are right
about ocellatus/farragus. the spots on the head are supposed to be finer in farragus. but I have some ocellatus with fine spotting. if you look at the pictures it's interesting to see, that the "classic-pattern-type" with clear lateral "eyes" has a coarser spotting on the head. that's the type in "borneosucker" too.
Jim Powers (ocellatus about 8 years old) remarked a washing out of patterns, making it more difficult to distinguish

March 24, 2010
11:40 pm
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Matt
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I'm still confused about these G. ocellatus with blue/violet colouration in the caudal - not a feature mentioned by Dr. Tan. *scratches chin*

Also is this a juvenile Charles?

P.S. - We could really do with some pics of G. scitulus if anyone has any. /thumbs_up.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumbsup:" border="0" alt="thumbs_up.gif" />

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March 25, 2010
12:49 pm
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Mark Duffill
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Two G. scitulus pics Matt, I have more and will dig some out later:

DSC_0020.jpgImage Enlarger


DSC_0123.jpgImage Enlarger

March 25, 2010
6:02 pm
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Matt
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Thanks Mark! Does that top fish have blue in the dorsal?

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March 25, 2010
6:23 pm
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torso
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QUOTE (Matt @ Mar 25 2010, 12:23 AM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm still confused about these G. ocellatus with blue/violet colouration in the caudal - not a feature mentioned by Dr. Tan. *scratches chin*

Also is this a juvenile Charles?

P.S. - We could really do with some pics of G. scitulus if anyone has any. /thumbs_up.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumbsup:" border="0" alt="thumbs_up.gif" />


hi Matt
g zebrinus: no. it was about 3 cm when it came in and is now at 4 cm. it's the most "unlikely" zebrinus I have apart of one newcomer. give me time antil sunday and I'll pass you a lot of different zebrinus. as HHT said. he has seen hundreds in the wild and can confirm a large scale of possible patterns.
g ocellatus: as I said, I think there are "local" colourations and patterns. I'll pass you some variations

March 25, 2010
6:40 pm
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Mark Duffill
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QUOTE (Matt @ Mar 25 2010, 05:45 PM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks Mark! Does that top fish have blue in the dorsal?

A small amount Matt but nothing near as much as ctenocephalus, it was strange as all my other scitulus had no blue at all in the dorsal.

March 30, 2010
12:09 am
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Matt
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Charles sent a stack of cracking images last night of which most are now uploaded to the relevant profiles. Some really interesting fishes among them including a form of G. scitulus with red distal edges to the caudal fin and these G. zebrinus which look very yellow compared with ones I'd seen previously; the last one almost reminds me of a wee clown panaque. Thanks again Charles!

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March 31, 2010
10:00 am
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Matt
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Any information about this one?

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September 22, 2010
6:42 pm
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Kajsa12
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A few weeks ago I have bought some more G. zebrinus.
One of them is a bit different and looks exactly like one in this thread.
Especially the marking and the colour of the caudal fin is different.
Is this G. zebrinus or maybe some other species?
(In a few weeks all G. zebrinus will move to their new tank)

Some pics

Gunknown1h.jpgImage Enlarger

Gunknown1d.jpgImage Enlarger

Left the unknown one, at the right new one with 'normal' caudal.
Gunknown1j.jpgImage Enlarger

Gunknown1f.jpgImage Enlarger

Gunknown1i.jpgImage Enlarger

Gunknown1b.jpgImage Enlarger

Gunknown1e.jpgImage Enlarger

September 24, 2010
11:19 pm
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Matt
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Hmm the caudal patterning looks wrong for it to be G. zebrinus. How big is it Henri?

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September 25, 2010
8:02 am
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Kajsa12
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It's between 3 and 3.5 cm SL.

September 25, 2010
1:43 pm
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afroturf
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As mentioned earlier it doesn't look like G. zebrinus, could be Protomyzon whiteheadi from googling for some pics

September 25, 2010
3:00 pm
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Plaamoo
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If Charle's fish in post 13 is g. zebrinas, this should be also. It looks identical to me comparing the pics. Caudal pattern isn't typical but they look the same to me. Maybe my eyes are worse than I think they are /huh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":huh:" border="0" alt="huh.gif" /> ?? Where's Charles?

Did I mention how jealous I am Henri! Beautiful fish!!

September 25, 2010
3:27 pm
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Matt
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I think it's a Gastromyzon sp. but maybe something cool like G. lepidogaster. This is P. cf. whiteheadi:

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