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How to differentiate between Pangio oblonga and P. pangia?
December 15, 2012
7:00 pm
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Stefan
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Today I purchased 11 Pangio not knowing which species it is so I am hoping that someone could give me some advice on the matter. :) I have not yet been able to make a decent photograph.

December 15, 2012
8:31 pm
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mikev
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P.pangia:

Dorsal soft rays (total): 10; Anal soft rays: 9; Vertebrae: 47 - 52. Differs from members of the P. kuhlii and P. shelfordii groups and the Myanmar P. signicauda and P. lumbriciformis by having plain brown color pattern. Distinguished from species of the P. anguillaris group and P. signicauda and P. lumbriciformis by possessing fewer abdominal vertebrae (34-39 vs 40-52). Differs from the other members of the P. oblonga group by the following characters: from P. filinaris and P. mariarum by the absence of the nasal barbel (vs presence) and from P. oblonga by a narrower body (7.6-9 times SL vs 7.2-7.7). Can be differentiated from all other Myanmar species by the longer pectoral fins (8.2-9.6 % SL vs 5.3-7.0), and further from P. elongata, P. lumbriciformis and P. signicauda by a deeper body (body depth 13.5-16.3 % SL vs 6.5-9.3) and a deeper (caudal peduncle depth 7.5-9.7 % SL vs 4.1-5.5 % SL) and shorter caudal peduncle (caudal peduncle length 10.5-12.5 % SL vs 14.9-16.6 % SL), from P. fusca and P. apoda by presence of the pelvic girdle and pelvic fins (vs absence), from P.signicauda and P. lumbriciformis by the plain brown coloration (vs with dark marks on body and fins), from P. fusca by the number of abdominal vertebrae (34-39 vs 41-44) and the absence of a nasal barbel (vs presence), and from P. elongata by relatively more posteriorly placed pelvic fins (prepelvic length 79-86.8 % SL vs 56.3 % SL).

This key is coming from

Britz, R. and J. Maclaine, 2007. A review of the eel-loaches, genus Pangio, from Myanmar (Teleostei: Cypriniformes: Cobitidae). Ichthyol. Explor. Freshwat. 18(1):17-30.

via fishbase.

hth

December 16, 2012
11:04 am
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Stefan
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Thanks Mike! I was hoping there would be something easier to distinguish the two on appearance. It seems is the only way is by body depth.

December 16, 2012
11:10 am
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t-hak
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I believe P. pangia caudal is slightly rounded and P. oblonga has truncate or slightly forked

Forging the Land of Thousand Lakes | Rare Exports Inc. | Safety instructions
December 16, 2012
4:37 pm
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mikev
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Stefan said

Thanks Mike! I was hoping there would be something easier to distinguish the two on appearance. It seems is the only way is by body depth.

Two things you can do: (1) read the paper, perhaps there are some more hints there (2) check the origin of the fish against known distribution of p.pangia and p.oblonga, perhaps your fish comes from a country that only has records of one species.

December 16, 2012
9:12 pm
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Stefan
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"I believe P. pangia caudal is slightly rounded and P. oblonga has truncate or slightly forked"

 

That might help a lot. Do you have a source for that information?

 

Mike, good idea. Will do!

December 17, 2012
10:22 am
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t-hak
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Stefan said 

"I believe P. pangia caudal is slightly rounded and P. oblonga has truncate or slightly forked"

 

That might help a lot. Do you have a source for that information?

 

P. pangia
Hamilton, 1822 : The caudal fin is small and rounded (p.355)
M´Clelland, 1839 : The fins are round and small (p.435), drawing confirms this (fig.5 plate LI)
Cuvier and Valenciennes, 1846 : La caudale est arrondie - The caudal is rounded (p.76)
Blyth, 1860 : This has small fins and a round tail ; but certain Indonesian species affined to it have a forked tail (p.169)
Day, 1889 : Drawing (fig.81 on page 222)

P. oblonga
Bleeker, 1862 (on 2012 translation) : caudal fin expanded, truncate or hardly emarginate (p.84), drawing comfirms this (p.83)

...have to go to work now - i'll find more refs if you need to ;)

Many pictures on web shows P. oblonga, alltough it says P. pangia.

And not to make things too simple, i remember it's said that there's probably more than one species in the group defined as P. oblonga.

 

Forging the Land of Thousand Lakes | Rare Exports Inc. | Safety instructions
December 17, 2012
11:16 am
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Stefan
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Thanks a million!! This is more than enough. So as the taxa currently stand I can understand it as oblonga with a forked caudal and pangia with a rounded one?

December 17, 2012
3:18 pm
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t-hak
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Stefan said
Thanks a million!! This is more than enough. So as the taxa currently stand I can understand it as oblonga with a forked caudal and pangia with a rounded one?

To be exact, as defined by above  (cause my english is not the best):

P. pangia caudal fin is rounded

P. oblonga caudal fin is truncate or hardly emarginate

Forging the Land of Thousand Lakes | Rare Exports Inc. | Safety instructions
December 17, 2012
5:28 pm
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Stefan
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t-hak said

To be exact, as defined by above  (cause my english is not the best):

P. pangia caudal fin is rounded

P. oblonga caudal fin is truncate or hardly emarginate

 

 

Well mine are definitely Pangio oblonga - that is, until the taxon is revised ;) Truncate to slightly forked caudal fin.

December 17, 2012
10:28 pm
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Thomas
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Great info, Thanks! I have some brown Pangio with rounded caudal fin but they have bars on the head. So neither P. oblonga nor P. pangia.

So it looks (the caudal):
pang_cauda.jpgImage Enlarger

 

 

 

 

December 17, 2012
10:36 pm
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Matt
Málaga, Spain
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Agreed, great info in this thread. Is this sp. PAN04 Thomas?

Cake or death?
December 17, 2012
11:37 pm
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Stefan
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Thomas, would you have a full lateral shot?

December 18, 2012
10:24 am
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t-hak
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Matt said
Agreed, great info in this thread. Is this sp. PAN04 Thomas?

Sorry for taking this topic to sideways, but to my eyes PAN04 lighter and darker forms isn't the same species.

I think i can see nasal barbels on the lighter form and only tubes on the darker form. Pigment (small dark dots) are more clearly divided from the lateral line on the lighter form (excluding last caudal part). Also the darker form has heavily pigmented pectoral fins, but on the lighter form the fins are very clear.

Forging the Land of Thousand Lakes | Rare Exports Inc. | Safety instructions
December 18, 2012
11:51 am
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Matt
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Agree it's possible they are different, it says as much in the profile.

Cake or death?
December 18, 2012
2:46 pm
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Thomas
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Agreed, great info in this thread. Is this sp. PAN04 Thomas?

Yes Matt.

 

Stefan, look here: http://www.seriouslyfish.com/s.....-sp-pan04/

I don't have better pics at the moment.

 

December 18, 2012
5:17 pm
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Stefan
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Thanks Thomas! Ehm I have at least one with such  yellow on its head...

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