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Lucania goodei
January 19, 2013
4:55 am
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mikev
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Thanks, Matt,

OK... I do have Red L.goodei now. One DOA but the rest seem ok albeit very shy and totally lacking color (per vendor takes 2-3 weeks). We'll see...

I'm asking about cyprinodon... one definite difference is that they use spawning pit in substrate but not clear what kind of substrate is needed.... would be interesting to see how they do it.

January 21, 2013
8:50 am
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Matt
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mikev said 
one definite difference is that they use spawning pit in substrate but not clear what kind of substrate is needed.... 

Think that might depend on species? Some will use mops for sure.

Cake or death?
January 21, 2013
5:57 pm
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mikev
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Most likely.

I've been trying to find some info, found some here:

Reproduction: Males turn bright iridescent blue when in breeding condition, they build a spawning pit and then fiercely guard it from others.

but I'm not sure this is actually the species being listed.

January 22, 2013
3:41 pm
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mikev
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@Lucania:

It seems that there are more variations, cf. photo here:

[Image Can Not Be Found]

for a yellow version.

January 29, 2013
8:38 pm
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mikev
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@lucania:

It took them about a week to color up and start feeding actively (initially they were all hiding under the sponge filter and eating only the food that drifts there.)
I assume that red is only present in males... a couple now are nicely colored, but my ratio is messed up, either 2m:8f or 3m:7f (not sure about one small fish which shows a bit of color). As luck has it, the DOA was a male :(
And I found a couple of eggs just now :D (fairly large, at least the same size as fp.gardneri, so the fry should be artemia capable. Not that I know if the eggs are any good yet.)

January 30, 2013
9:06 am
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Matt
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Good stuff Mike, keep us updated! Do you want me to split this into a separate thread?

Cake or death?
January 31, 2013
4:32 pm
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mikev
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Thank you! :) --- sure split, sorry for the hijack!

February 1, 2013
6:59 pm
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Matt
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Done. Smile

Cake or death?
February 9, 2013
10:15 pm
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mikev
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An update:

the behavior radically changed after about 10 days... now they consider me the source of food and assemble in front of the tank, even checking their mop does not scare them at all. But once fed, they go hide under the filter for a while...

Quite enjoyable... albeit the feel is more of a rasbora than of a killie.

As for the eggs: unless something changes posting them would not be practical. Firstly, the eggs are very few... total collected so far is only 5. I _think_ they are pretty bad egg-eaters. Secondly, the initially collected eggs hatched a couple of days ago (seems like about 6 days incubation at 75F), so one would need to collect a few in 2-3 days at most... right now does not seem feasible, but maybe as they grow they will become more prolific.
(APPEND: the fry seems to hatch with a large yolk sac.)

The fry incidentally looks like typical killie.. hangs to the bottom, and hides very well... indeed slightly larger than fp.gardneri fry. I have not seen them since releasing...somewhere under java moss, most likely.

February 17, 2013
5:27 am
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mikev
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Nay, I lied :(

The fry may look initially like a killie, but they behave totally different from Western African killies... hiding stopped after about 5 days and now they hang near the surface.. feel like rainbow rather than killies.

February 18, 2013
8:21 am
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Matt
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What are you feeding them Mike?

Cake or death?
February 18, 2013
12:04 pm
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mikev
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Adults: frozen spirulina brine, bloodworms. I tried artemia, but they are not very interested.
Fry: artemia, paramecium (almost certainly unneeded, but they eat it)

March 24, 2013
5:50 pm
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mikev
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OK... I think i figured this out (10 eggs yesterday :D ). The fish is actually easy to breed if you understand them.

I had three problems:

1. Firstly, they really need live food, more than for instance west african killies. Daphnia would have been the best, but large amounts of grindal worms work too. Getting them to take grindals took about two weeks?! -- but now they like them.

2. Juveniles: most of the fish I have are around 1"... I thought they were all females, but actually most may be immature. They grow very slowly... strange, because the growth rate of the fry is very good, 2cm after about 5 weeks: http://www.micropress-inc.com/fishpic/lucania-fry-2cm.jpgImage Enlarger

. Even stranger, new fry loves artemia (which probably contributes to growth)... but only slightly larger wild caught fish would not touch it. And juveniles are definitely egg-eaters.

3. Timing: they need to be given a good meal in the morning.. 2-3 hours later eggs appear. If wait too long, eggs are eaten. Feeding them live food at night is pointless.

March 25, 2013
8:20 am
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Matt
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Good info and great work Mike!

Cake or death?
March 25, 2013
8:14 pm
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mikev
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Thanks, Matt!

One more note just for fun: since I had only four babies initially (the eggs were in short supply till now) I tried to raise them with Sawbwa and Aphyosemion bitaeniatum... I expected Sawbwa will not make it -- much smaller fry and slow growing -- but they did just fine. A.bitaeniatum otoh were all eaten :( At about 10 days of age, Lucania fry decided to hide under the moss, and this is where A.bitaeniatum were...

Anyway... I'm kind of impressed with the grindal results on lucania ... any reasons to think that they may help me with cories or west african killies (having problems with some species)?

April 4, 2013
5:46 pm
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mikev
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OK...maybe this would be useful for the profile:

One of the oldest babies just sexed out. Plus/Minus day or two it was from the eggs collected on 1/29 and hatched on 2/5, so he is nearly exactly 2 months old. This is at 80F (which is probably the summer temperature for the species, this is when fry grows.) First sign was the first dorsal ray becoming black (3-4 days ago), today I can clearly see red in the anal fin (dorsal for now is still transparent).

Fairly aggressive fry btw, unlike the adults... lots of chasing esp. during feeding.

April 5, 2013
12:24 am
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oaken
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Nice work. Regarding grindal worms they're great to condition a lot of fish for breeding (as are white worms for bigger fish). With killies I find that you usually get a lot of eggs the day(s) after a big feeding with grindal worms/white worms.

April 6, 2013
4:49 am
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mikev
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Thanks Oaken,

I'm going to experiment one species at a time... I have a few killies that produce but little and a couple of fundulopanchax species that I cannot get anything good from so far.

The only problem is that the fish takes quite a long time to recognize grindals as food... i think it was two weeks for lucania (and they took white worms right away)... aphanius (the next one to try) so far ignores them.

What about using grindals with cories?

April 6, 2013
9:41 pm
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oaken
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I must say I find it strange that you are having problems with your fish not recognising the grindal worms as food. Usually it's taken eagerly by most fish for me (with very few exceptions). I guess if they're not used to smaller foods it might take them longer to recognise it. 

 

Anyway, you might know this but a lot of killies will happily eat their own eggs, so it's a good idea to check the mops a lot. If you still don't get any eggs I would recommend seperating the female(s) and male(s) and then feed the female heavily for a couple of days up to a week and then put the male together with the female. Then you should get plenty of eggs. 

 

I would imagine Corydoras would love grindal worms as they sink to the bottom. It's been a long time since I actually kept any Corydoras though and I have never actually tried feeding them grindal worms, but I can't see why they wouldn't love them.

April 7, 2013
12:21 am
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mikev
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Slow recognition is strange indeed but true, and the chap I got the culture from says it is always the problem with him as well...no fish would take it right away. White or (live) bloodworms are instantly recognizable, grindals are not. My aphanius figured them out overnight .. they were checking the bottom non-stop today, and now intensely spawning. :D

As for other killie problems, let me experiment just a bit more and then perhaps ask for help.... I just don't understand why I'm failing with these two groups when other fp/ap species were more or less smooth sailing.

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