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Macropodus baviensis, M. lineatus, M. oligolepis M. phongnhaensis
April 24, 2011
7:50 pm
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Stefan
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Has anyone ever seen them? Schindler (2009) argues that:

"When reviewing the available data. And without further evidence, it could very well be that in the case of M. phongnhaensis it concerns a synonym for M. erythropterus (=M. spechti, see below) and in M. baviensis for M. opercularis."*

*News on the taxonomy and distribution of Macropodus species, Der Makropode – 31. Jahrgang – 1 / 2009

I have this article if anyone's interested.

April 24, 2011
8:13 pm
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Paul J
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Yes please Stefan

I received Macropodus Ocellatus (chinensis) at the IGL meeting in France

April 24, 2011
8:14 pm
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Stefan
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QUOTE (Paul J @ Apr 24 2011, 09:56 PM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes please Stefan

I received Macropodus Ocellatus (chinensis) at the IGL meeting in France

Good for you! Planning on keeping them outdoors? Saw them for sale in the shop here as well. One paper coming up.

April 25, 2011
11:38 am
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Matt
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That paper is also currently available here. /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

The Nguyen (2005) reference mentioned has created a heap of confusion over a bunch of genera. /wacko.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wacko:" border="0" alt="wacko.gif" />

Cake or death?
April 25, 2011
3:36 pm
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Stefan
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QUOTE (Matt @ Apr 25 2011, 01:21 PM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
The Nguyen (2005) reference mentioned has created a heap of confusion over a bunch of genera. /wacko.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wacko:" border="0" alt="wacko.gif" />

How so?

April 25, 2011
3:53 pm
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Matt
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I've not seen it to be honest but apparently the book includes descriptions of 57 (!) new species which are all pretty vague and accompanied by poor quality images. It's also written entirely in Vietnamese making translation very difficult.

Cake or death?
April 25, 2011
5:19 pm
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Stefan
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QUOTE (Matt @ Apr 25 2011, 05:36 PM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
I've not seen it to be honest but apparently the book includes descriptions of 57 (!) new species which are all pretty vague and accompanied by poor quality images. It's also written entirely in Vietnamese making translation very difficult.

I remember seeing the Mac types and that material was a long way from ideal. Has the book been peer reviewed before publication (personally I feel species shouldn't be described in books (is that allowed when following the code?) a la Apisto e.g., although I don't know what kind of book this Vietnamnese one is).

April 25, 2011
5:28 pm
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Matt
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The title translates as 'Freshwater Fishes of Vietnam' and it was published in three volumes, I think.

Not sure about the code in terms of describing species in books but at least the publication of descriptions in hobbyist magazines appear to have fallen out of fashion now. How was that ever considered a good idea? /blink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blink:" border="0" alt="blink.gif" />

Cake or death?
April 25, 2011
5:32 pm
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Stefan
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Different times I guess.

April 25, 2011
5:58 pm
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Matt
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Yup guess so. /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Cake or death?
April 25, 2011
7:08 pm
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Stefan
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Taxa described in books are valid according to the code. It's not easy to hold of such descriptions, hence I prefer them to be published in journals /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

April 25, 2011
8:56 pm
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Colin
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for some people who were discovering the fish in the wild and held at the mercy of scientists it was the only way that these dedicated hobbyists could get their say...

we know that a description presented in a modern day fishkeeping mag would just get laughed out of the water. Yes, a sign of the times perhaps?

One modern one I can think of is Uwe Romer's books which were his PhD and I dont have a problem with them at all

April 25, 2011
9:07 pm
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Stefan
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QUOTE (Colin @ Apr 25 2011, 10:39 PM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
for some people who were discovering the fish in the wild and held at the mercy of scientists it was the only way that these dedicated hobbyists could get their say...

we know that a description presented in a modern day fishkeeping mag would just get laughed out of the water. Yes, a sign of the times perhaps?

One modern one I can think of is Uwe Romer's books which were his PhD and I dont have a problem with them at all

Scientific papers in hobbyists magazines aren't allowed anymore, and that's a good thing. So a taxon wouldn't be valid.

My only 'issue' with descriptions in books is that you'd have to buy the whole book while you might be looking for that single description only, which would translate to paying a higher price versus buying a single PDF file; I can see the latter gaining more overall interest. Maybe it's just me?

April 25, 2011
9:30 pm
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Colin
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I didn't mind that with the Apistogramma books because for about thirty quid each I now have tonnes of species information about a group I am quite interested in. It's nice to have it all in one place and a lot of the info is transferable from one to the next. I also like the photos of the biotopes etc that you can get and the fact that each species has often got about twenty pics of living fish compared to maybe 2 or 3 in a paper. Over the years I have went back to these books many times for many different species.

I think that the books made a "proper scientific" research project easier to access be general hobbyists with an interest without a lot of the snobbery.

Actually, I would welcome more work like this as long as it is written in a similar way.

I agree that descriptions in modern versions of fishkeeping magazines would be a joke these days!

April 25, 2011
9:52 pm
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Matt
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My main problem with things like this getting published in books/magazines is that it can be a real nightmare trying to track down copies of older/more 'exotic' material whereas journals at least tend to keep an electronic archive, even if you need to pay for access. Guessing this will become less of a problem the way the publishing industry is going though?

Cake or death?
April 25, 2011
9:56 pm
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Stefan
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QUOTE (Colin @ Apr 25 2011, 11:13 PM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
I didn't mind that with the Apistogramma books because for about thirty quid each I now have tonnes of species information about a group I am quite interested in. It's nice to have it all in one place and a lot of the info is transferable from one to the next. I also like the photos of the biotopes etc that you can get and the fact that each species has often got about twenty pics of living fish compared to maybe 2 or 3 in a paper. Over the years I have went back to these books many times for many different species.

I think that the books made a "proper scientific" research project easier to access be general hobbyists with an interest without a lot of the snobbery.

Actually, I would welcome more work like this as long as it is written in a similar way.

I agree that descriptions in modern versions of fishkeeping magazines would be a joke these days!

Oh yes they definitely are great books; I've looked through them all when I was over, and they are very helpful to any Apisto-loving hobbyists. But put yourself in the shoes of an ichthyologist; you'd need maybe one or two descriptions from those book and find yourself asking to get 90 quid approved /blink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blink:" border="0" alt="blink.gif" /> I guess it depends on what you are?

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