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Merah & brigittae
April 17, 2013
1:40 pm
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Cuna
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April 17, 2013
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according to new studies the following species are actually the same:

http://www.seriouslyfish.com/s.....ras-merah/

and

http://www.seriouslyfish.com/s.....ch/boraras

 

seems that the striped one is the male and the dotted is the female.

 

i would like some confirmation if somebody has been looking in to this or possibly knows anything about it.

April 17, 2013
1:49 pm
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Rüdiger
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Hi Cuna,

would you by any chance have a source for those "new studies"? I'd be very much interested!

Regards

R.

If you must insist on living in a box ...... at least do your thinking outside.
April 17, 2013
1:56 pm
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Cuna
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I live in Stockholm, Sweden.

I buy my fish from an importer and he is quite the fish nerd.

He is the one that told me this. I will try to get more info on it but i see no reason why he would fabricate these things.

 

It is said to be very very fresh studies made by swedes and also in germany.

 

April 17, 2013
3:18 pm
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kim m
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There was an article about this last year in the German BSSW (barben-salmler-schmerlen-welse) specialist groups members magazine as far as I remember. Haven't studied it that hard though and I can't find it right now.

---------------------------- Best regards, Kim Kastberg
April 17, 2013
4:44 pm
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Rüdiger
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Hi Cuna,

I didn't mean to say that the story is a fabrication, I am just generally interested in the subject!

It would be great if you could get more info on that but no sweat if you can't

 

Thanx for the info kim m, I'll try to find out more about it!

 

Regards

 

R.

If you must insist on living in a box ...... at least do your thinking outside.
April 17, 2013
7:12 pm
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Cuna
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kim m said
There was an article about this last year in the German BSSW (barben-salmler-schmerlen-welse) specialist groups members magazine as far as I remember. Haven't studied it that hard though and I can't find it right now.

Great!

Can you please try to find this article and let us know?

cheers

April 17, 2013
10:04 pm
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oaken
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This topic has been brought up here before a couple of years ago. As of then Erik Åhlander was speculating that it might actually be 2-4 species. Anyway, I have the article from the BSSW if anyone wants it either e-mail me or send me a PM. I might just e-mail Erik  and see if he knows anything about it. If there has been a Swedish study then he ought to know.

April 18, 2013
11:35 am
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Matt
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I'd love a copy please Gustav. This has been mentioned on here a few times but I've never seen any conclusive evidence.

Cake or death?
April 18, 2013
1:04 pm
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torso
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You have got it, Matt. Anybody else?

BSSW 2 2010 Hans-Jürgen Körner; Boraras merah ist doch ein Synonym von Boraras brigittae

Cheers Charles

April 18, 2013
3:34 pm
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Rüdiger
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Got it! ;-)

Thanx Gustav!

If you must insist on living in a box ...... at least do your thinking outside.
April 18, 2013
3:37 pm
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oaken
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You're most welcome :)

April 19, 2013
2:37 pm
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Matt
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Ok, translated it more-or-less but one thing isn't clear to me - how did the author determine the gender of such tiny fish?

Also, I think I understood that some populations have males with B. merah-type markings, which would mean it's not strictly correct to say that B. merah is simply female B. brigittae.

Cake or death?
April 20, 2013
7:41 am
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hachge
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Tank you all for the PDF

June 26, 2013
6:30 pm
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Matt
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Did you guys that received the paper draw any conclusions?

Cake or death?
June 26, 2013
6:39 pm
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darren636
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I was wondering the same thing.

August 7, 2013
11:03 am
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hachge
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The more I watch my fish,the less I can decide what is what

August 24, 2014
1:28 pm
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Matt
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From Kottelat (2013) in relation to B. merah:

There has been speculation (in the aquarium literature) on the identity of this species, fueled by interpretation of published data and observations and assumptions on fish bought in the aquarium-fish trade, whose real origin can never be certain. Females have a spotted pattern and were compared in the original description with B. brigittae, which has a striped pattern in both sexes. Striped individuals had been collected with B. merah and had been originally identified as B. brigittae; it now seems they are males of B. merah (material no longer available for examination).

I have since examined more samples from known localities in central Borneo in which the two color patterns are present (although the stripe is never as well developed as in B. brigittae). This colour dichromatism is observed in offspring of individuals obtained from the aquarium-fish trade, reportedly from Kalimantan Tengah (but without precise origin), and this was seen as evidence that B. merah is a synonym of B. brigittae (see, e.g. Körner, 2010). This author, however, incidentally also reported (p. 26) that in an 'east' population the colour pattern of both sexes develops from the spotted to the striped pattern, long before reaching sexual maturity, while in the 'central' population the spotted pattern evolves into the striped pattern only in males, and only at sexual maturity.

It is now my turn to speculate: it seems that by 'east' population is meant individuals from the area of Banjarmasin (that is, close to the vague type locality of B. brigittae) and by 'central' population is meant individuals exported from Palangkaraya. This seems
to correspond to B. brigittae and B. merah, respectively, and the different ontogenies support the recognition of two species.
The specimens of B. brigittae figured by Kottelat et al. (1993: pl. 17) is a pair that had spawned in captivity (K. Wilkerling, pers. comm., 1990) and that had been collected by the original collector of the type series at the type locality. Besides, the two species differ in the shape of the caudal peduncle (more slender in B. merah) and details of the distribution of the pigments and the pale area around the lateral blotches and stripe.

Further speculation based solely on information and/or material from the aquarium-fish trade is better avoided. Still, one should note that the type locality of B. merah is quite distant from Palangkaraya and the areas where the exported populations are collected (pers. obs.).

Cake or death?
November 22, 2014
3:10 pm
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darren636
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well , i cant be sure which is male or female.

 i would have thought female brigittae would be bigger but duller than the males.

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