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New Sewellia?
June 16, 2012
2:06 am
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Plaamoo
Bellingham, Washington U.S.A.
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Has anyone seen these? Only one pic but looks nice!

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin.....1340235109

 

Also interesting!

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin.....1340234717

June 16, 2012
9:45 pm
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mikev
NYC
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I believe that Sewellia is the one Saigon Aquarium distributes as "S.breventralis" (wrong name). The intriguing part is if the shipment contains the 2nd species (recall the recent discussion)... I actually asked Anthony about this, he said all fish looks alike,...well, who knows.

As for the other fish, as a guess it is some Annamia, likely undocumented... and I vaguely recall Matt saying something about this in profiles somewhere... even if he was talking about Saigon Aquarium exports, and this seems like another company, it still looks like an Annamia to me....

(I got some fish from Anthony yesterday... not these two, had to grab two other things he was running out...)

June 17, 2012
2:14 am
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Plaamoo
Bellingham, Washington U.S.A.
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You keep telling me your full up. Then in the next message it's " I got some new fish yesterday"Laugh You should get 20 of each of these to see what they are.

June 17, 2012
4:26 am
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mikev
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20 at $15? I'm crazy but not this crazy. Cry  Besides I'm pretty sure I know what they are, I still have some of these Sewellia's (I bred them).... and I still have one Annamia surviving from that ich-infested batch. :(

Nay, seriously the space is quite short.  I can fit only very small fish....

June 18, 2012
8:07 am
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Matt
Málaga, Spain
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Sewellia looks like this one Jim?

Cake or death?
June 18, 2012
3:47 pm
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Plaamoo
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Thanks Matt. Had forgotten about that one.

June 18, 2012
5:58 pm
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mikev
NYC
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Matt,

Some questions on Sewellia profiles:

What is the difference between Sew02 and Sew03? --- seem like the same species?

Do we know for a fact that Sew04 is a Sewellia?

Sew04 profile includes a section on Reproduction: does this imply that it was bred? (because if it was never bred in Aquaria the relevance is not clear...and we don't even know for a fact it breeds like Sewellias!)

While we are here....  a couple of Sew04 shots possibly showing both sexes:

http://www.micropress-inc.com/fishpic/sew-unk-fm.jpgImage Enlarger

http://www.micropress-inc.com/fishpic/sew-unk-m.jpgImage Enlarger

One interesting difference is that in the second photo the area at the base of the side fin is reflective, in the other it is simply light. The sizes are proportional to the photos, the fish is likely full grown in both cases... making me think that this shows both sexes... not guessing which is which.

June 19, 2012
8:10 am
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Matt
Málaga, Spain
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SEW02 and SEW03 might well be the same species Mike, I've no idea. We ordered the profiles according to general consensus of those taking part in discussion when they were written, direct observation from those keeping them, and an article published in Amazonas magazine during 2010.

What makes you think SEW04 isn't a Sewellia?

Cake or death?
June 19, 2012
9:27 am
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mikev
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On Sew02 and Sew03: given the obvious similarities in the supplied photos for the two "species" it should be necessary to supply at least some hints on how they differ! Otherwise, just how do we know if the newest Sewellia import is Sew02 or Sew03? I kept this fish for three years too, and all photos in both profiles match the fish I had.. seriously, can I see the discussion that led to this decision? Perhaps there was a key of some kind there?

As for Sew04: I have no idea what this is.  That Sew02 (aka Sew03) is a Sewellia seems plausible based on its breeding and fry's similarity to other Sewellia (albeit the behavior of 02/03 is very different of other Sewellias!);  about Sew04 we know too little. Quite possibly a Sewellia, quite possibly not. But whether it is a Sewellia or not, we really do not know if it is sufficiently similar to other Sewellia species so that the information in the Reproduction and Sexual Dimorphism applies to it.  (Please correct me if I missed the big event, but Sew04 was not bred in aquaria so far, right?  and there is no photo anywhere that shows sexed Sew04?) 

June 19, 2012
12:14 pm
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torso
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hi mikev

SEW02nd SEW03 are different in regard to the pattern. So far I have no scientific evidence. But I could furnish some pics to discuss the matter as soon I find the time. Behaviour difference in other Sewellias? Not significant as far as I could notice the last 4 years.

SEW04 hasn't been bred as far as I know. It's the only sewellia-species I haven't had success. But as a matter of fact I didn't really insist so far. And I have pics for the easier sexing. Pic 1,3,4 in the profile show a male. Pic 2 (underside) shows a female. Just the classic differences. They're like the other Sewellias. Your pics show a pair. Lucky you!

cheers Charles

June 19, 2012
4:28 pm
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Matt
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So SEW04 can be sexed as per other Sewellia spp. Charles?

Do you think SE02 and SE03 are different enough to warrant separate profiles in the absence of scientific confirmation?

Mike, there was no key but the relevant thread can be found here. Stuff like this is sometimes based more on guesswork than anything else, and of course mistakes may occur. It's quite common for a new loricariid species to be described which is subsequently found to refer to more than one 'L' or 'LDA' number, for example.

It would of course be preferable to supply details on how SEW02 and SEW03 differ, if they are indeed distinct, and as always I'm fully willing to make changes or improvements to the profiles if we can agree on what those should be.

Cake or death?
June 19, 2012
5:48 pm
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mikev
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On Sew04: thanks Charles... I do think I have both sexes finally, either 1m/2f or 2m/1f (this took only 3 years), but do you have a guess on which one is a male, which one is female?  Unfortunately, I can argue both ways! And I could not find any differences in underside views!

Being able to reliably sex them would not just be nice in itself, it also will be a supporting argument for them being Sewellia's. And of course having labelled photos of both sexes in the profile would be helpful.

On Sew02/Sew03: let me recheck the linked thread carefully and get back to you.

June 19, 2012
10:21 pm
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torso
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Hi mikev

some pics. The difference: male's first pectoral ray thinckened - makes it look like the fin having a bow forward, slimmer body, more tusewellia-sp-DSC_0989.jpgImage Enlarger

sewellia-sp-DSC_2270.jpgImage Enlarger
sewellia-sp-CSC_2284.jpgImage Enlarger
sewellia-sp-CSC_2507.jpgImage Enlarger
sewellia-sp-CSC_3050.jpgImage Enlarger
sewellia-sp-CSC_2754.jpgImage Enlarger
sewellia-sp-CSC_3045.jpgImage Enlarger
sewellia-sp-DSC_3015.jpgImage Enlarger
sewellia-sp-DSC_2101.jpgImage Enlarger
bercles.

Six/four pics.

for the AMAZONAS picssend me your e-mail.

Cheers Charles

June 19, 2012
10:55 pm
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mikev
NYC
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Email sent by PM. Thanks.

Yes, but which is which on your photos? In particular, let me ask again: you apparently saw the difference in my photos, which one do you think is a male?

(be blind, but I was looking for something like this since it occurs in other sewellia's and I could not be certain.---if sexing indeed can be accomplished by "fences", it is less pronounced than in other species.)

June 20, 2012
10:06 pm
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torso
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Hi mikev

sorry,may be it looks to easy to me: in your pics the first is a female, second a male. In my pics: first five (had to eliminate a double one) show males, next four females. The thickened first pectoral ray of the males makes it look a little like rectangular, the female's fin looks smother. The body of the females is fuller seen from above and underside. Of course S. lineolat shows a classic "fence" which is not to be seen in other species.

Cheers Charles

June 20, 2012
11:05 pm
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mikev
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Thanks Charles,

it is easier for you --- i have only 3 and two of them (females) arrived recently.

 

A couple of trailing questions to compare:

In my case the male is considerably larger too (all of the fish originated from the same shipment 3 years ago, but the females were owned by someone else till now...so they are all fully grown).  Is this the case on your end?

In my case the light area in the base of the side fin is reflective for the male (and I've had another male with equally reflective area) but not for either of the females. Is this the case on your end?

Comparing Sew04 to other Sewellias I keep/kept it seems to be more similar to S.elongata than to other species (obviously it is not S.elongata but perhaps a close relative.).

 

And a trailing remark:

I think the profile will benefit from photos that show the sexes, perhaps with arrows pointing to the characteristics?

And of course the breeding information in the profile needs to be clarified as to remove the impression that the species was actually bred or that it is known how to breed it... in fact, insertion of "This species has not been bred in aquaria, but possibly can be bred like other Sewellia species, namely <<<current text>>>" will accomplish just this.

June 21, 2012
8:15 am
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Matt
Málaga, Spain
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If anyone can doctor a photo or two to highlight the differences that would be great. I've no idea how to do that.

Will add a line to the reproduction section now.

Cake or death?
June 21, 2012
12:24 pm
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torso
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Is that doctored enough, Matt?

I hope the differences are more clear now, mikev. You may be right about the reflective zone. have to check it for the other species.

Female underside, 2 pics of a male, female body, two pics of a male.

Cheers Charles

sewellia-sp-sew-04-female-head-DSC_3692.jpgImage Enlarger

sewellia-sp-sew-04-male-CSC_2281.jpgImage Enlarger
sewellia-sp-sew-04-male-head-CSC_2281.jpgImage Enlarger
sewellia-sp-sew-04-female-body-DSC_3021.jpgImage Enlarger
sewellia-sp-sew-04-male-head-DSC_6490.jpgImage Enlarger
sewellia-sp-sew-04-male-marking-DSC_2837.jpgImage Enlarger

June 23, 2012
10:11 pm
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mikev
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Sorry for disappearing from this... there was a reason...  Plaamoo, Sewellia is also available from Frank, it is not the same import exactly (Frank's is "Sewellia breverntralis" implying another exporter). Frank's price is better, you may want to talk to him.

Before I say anything else I wanted to look at just what this is... need a bit more time to digest. Looks like an unholy mix, some Sew02/03, some Sew04, one that seems like a stray lineolata (or something similar to it), and some chances of Sew05 too... I'm confused atm. Embarassed

Interestingly, every time I ask a vendor "Are they all the same species?" I get a yes, and later learn it is not the case... Anthony said all his Sewellia's are the same too,... too bad I cannot go to Portland to look.... :( for all we know he may have ten new species there...

 

As for the "Homoloptera": any opinions on whether it is an Annamia or perhaps a Vanmanenia? ... I wish I could see the tail.....

June 24, 2012
1:00 am
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Plaamoo
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I'll just have to live vicariously through you for the time being. No room! I get excited when I see something new and start dreaming but the reality is.... NO ROOM!

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