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Questions On Rasbora
March 15, 2009
2:03 pm
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Matt
Málaga, Spain
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This is the next genus up for editing in the Knowledge Base (given up on Osteochilus for now /tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />). The first species we currently have covered is R. argyrotaenia. Has anyone kept it and is our pic the correct fish (I think it might not be)?

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Cake or death?
March 15, 2009
8:31 pm
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Mark Duffill
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You have started with a good one Matt, that looks the same as the fish considered to be R. argyrotaenia by most sites but I have had these and I bought them as Rasbora cf daniconius and would consider them to be that rather than R. argyrotaenia, R. argyrotaenia in my experience tend to be more silver in body colour.

March 15, 2009
9:34 pm
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Matt
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Right and the morphological info on FB doesn't say anything about that prominent lateral stripe either although it does state 'Origin of dorsal between tip of snout and caudal' which I would have taken as a given. /tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />

I'll delete the pic now then. I think finding info on this genus is going to be more difficult than the Puntius as there don't seem to be many recent studies. Any idea on the max SL for argyrotaenia Mark?

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March 15, 2009
9:56 pm
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mickthefish
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is that a JJ pic then Matt?.
i'm not sure on that beind a daniconius, i've had them as well as Andy a good few times and i can't remember the markings in the caudal being that prominent.

mick

March 15, 2009
10:43 pm
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Matt
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Aye Mick; I've lost that much faith with his ids now I'm asking you guys on any I'm not 100% on. The Osteochilus pics are his an' all. Any ideas what that Rasbora might be if it isn't danionicus?

Mark I've been reading up on argryotaenia the last hour or two and came across these pics of yours on rasboras.com. Pretty please we can use them? /wub.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wub:" border="0" alt="wub.gif" />

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March 15, 2009
10:49 pm
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Mark Duffill
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Yeah no probs Matt /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Ive had them to 6" and have seen a couple at 7" which is the size most places state as TL.

March 15, 2009
10:59 pm
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Mark Duffill
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QUOTE (mickthefish @ Mar 15 2009, 09:39 PM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
is that a JJ pic then Matt?.
i'm not sure on that beind a daniconius, i've had them as well as Andy a good few times and i can't remember the markings in the caudal being that prominent.

mick

Originally many moons ago Mick there were that many variations of daniconius that there were thought to be up to 5 different species, eventually these were put down to regional variations.

I have had daniconius from 4 separate shipments before and all had differences to patterns and markings.

March 15, 2009
11:04 pm
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Matt
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7"SL? /ohmy.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":o" border="0" alt="ohmy.gif" /> Pics changed thanks as always Mark.

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March 15, 2009
11:42 pm
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Mark Duffill
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QUOTE (Matt @ Mar 15 2009, 10:47 PM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
7"SL? /ohmy.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":o" border="0" alt="ohmy.gif" /> Pics changed thanks as always Mark.

I have seen specimens at 7"TL and had them to 6" myself, I think most places state between 12cm and 15cm TL

March 16, 2009
12:55 am
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Matt
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Ah ok mate thanks sorry I misunderstood. Thought you meant that most places state 7" as TL but you'd seen them at that size SL. Think the sun's getting to me... /wacko.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wacko:" border="0" alt="wacko.gif" />

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March 16, 2009
9:40 pm
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Matt
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I've added a profile for R. agilis today but can't find any detailed info about where it comes from outside of Borneo. Any of you guys have references to occurences in Sumatra and/or Peninsular Malaysia?

Also does anyone know how to differentiate this and R. pauciperforata as they look rather similar to me... /wacko.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wacko:" border="0" alt="wacko.gif" />

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March 16, 2009
10:12 pm
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David Marshall
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Hey Matt

One and the same?

Rasbora agilis , given full species status by Ahl in 1937, is one of those fish that causes much confusion amongst the scientific community? Some members of this community believe it to be a valid specie whilst others, in the majority, pronounce it as a synonym of R. pauciperforata (which we know as the Red-lined Rasbora). In aquarium literature agilis/this form of p., is often mistaken for R. gracilis.

It is easy to see why p. could cause such problems as this specie is known from Borneo, Malaya, Thailand, Sumatra and Cambodia.

Regards David

March 16, 2009
11:13 pm
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Mark Duffill
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It depends what lierature you want to go by Matt

R. agilis was deemed a none valid species and a variant of R. pauciperforata, after that R. agilis was again classed as a distinct species but this fish was renamed as R. gracilis by Kottelat.

The picture you have for R. agilis is actually R. pauciperforata.

Personally I would just link the R. agilis profile straight to R. pauciperforata.

March 16, 2009
11:50 pm
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Matt
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I think I'll just update the profile for pauciperforata when I get to it and omit agilis entirely lads. Will make mention of all this in the notes section of that profile. Honestly I'm so glad we've got such a knowledgeable lot on here otherwise the site would be doomed! /laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="Laugh" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

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March 17, 2009
10:46 am
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David Marshall
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Hey Matt

I would never tell you what do but in my opinion MD is right as you should link, rather than omit, agilis .

Have done some Internet searches and Fishbase and a few other sites still class agilis as a valid specie (showing different photographs for a. and p.). To take this further, sorry, some also state that taeniata is a synonym of agilis and mention no link to either of these species with p.

This begs the question are t., a. and p. different colour/regional variants of the same fish?

Brilliant.

Regards David

March 17, 2009
11:00 am
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Matt
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R. taeniata is currently listed as a junior synonym of both agilis and pauciperforata so it certainly seems that might be the case David.

I don't know what to do about agilis now. It seems it is the same species as pauciperforata and I don't really see the point in having two information pages for the same fish! Also the agilis one would clearly be without images too. I'm still tempted to omit it because if anyone seacrhes for agilis in the database they'll immediately be taken to the pauciperforata profile anyway where I was planning to explain all...

Has anyone ever seen R. aurotaenia in the trade? Considering deleting that species altogether for now as I just can't find any information anywhere.

Cake or death?
March 17, 2009
11:24 am
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David Marshall
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Hey Matt

I have seen a fish identified to me as Rasbora aurotaenia in the hobby. You have confusion here also as, if my memory is correct, R. retrodorsalis is considered by some a synonym of a. whereas others consider this fish (The Mekong Rasbora) as a valid specie.

Anyway R. aurotaenia is known as the Gold-stripe Rasbora. Max. length 6". I think it is found in Thailand and areas of the Mekong?

The fish I remember seeing as R.a was very similar to a Scissortail except that it had much more of a green sheen to the belly area. I remember distinctly that when the show tank in which this fish was held was moved into an area of natural light the green area glowed like an emerald. I have seen similar colour in other Rasbora species, and fellow cyprinids, but never seen anything to match this beauty

Regards David

March 17, 2009
12:38 pm
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Matt
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Sounds a beautiful fish David cheers. /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> I've made a semi-conscious decision not to feature any more species we don't have images or really thorough information for though. If we can get good images of a species it will go into the knowledge base so I think that for now R. aurotaenia will be consigned to the 'pending' file more's the pity...

What kind of breeding techniques would you guys recommend for Rasbora? Can they be bred using mops or is it better to add mesh over the base of the tank? Does the technique differ between the larger and smaller species?

Cake or death?
March 17, 2009
1:50 pm
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David Marshall
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Hey Matt

You have hit on another large scope subject.

Only Rasbora I have 'bred' is the Harlequin. This was easy as the parents spawned, on the underside of a lead, without any coaxing or pre-spawning feeding requirements etc. Sadly I was unable to remove the leaf in time to save the eggs.

Rasbora's will spawn in more than one way. Some need specific pH's and temperature. Others only spawn at certain times of the year. Gerry Hawksby always tells me that egg production in females is at a premium in the months March to May.

Very little but hope it helps.

Regards David

March 17, 2009
3:08 pm
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Mark Duffill
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Matt - I have a nagging suspicion that Emma may well have just got some R. aurotaenia in, I have seen them and couldn't get them when I was down last but will be picking some up soon.

There is a picture of them here, now I think from the descriptions I have read and the only couple of specimens I have seen that these could be juvenile R. aurotaenia, I good be way off but I just have this nagging thought that they are.

When I have spawned borapatensis, trilineata and elegans in the past I used a long shallow tank with the plastic spawning mats laid on the bottom, add the adults when the females are about ready to pop, add flow from one end at the surface and add cool water to the tank every few hours bringing the level up slowly and pretty much stop feeding apart from small amounts of black midge larvae, remove adults after a couple of days when eggs have been dropped and replace power filter with sponge filter and wait for fry to hatch.

Me and Mick were talking down at Emma's about spawning the bigger Rasbora's and I think his idea was pretty similar.

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