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Rays!
September 1, 2008
9:38 am
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Russell
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Some info please you lot!
Freshwater rays, what temp, pH, hardness, and other species can be kept with them please!
Cheers
Russell

September 1, 2008
10:15 am
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Mark Duffill
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You will have to do some digging around to find hardness etc but majority of rays are perfectly happy at temps of between 75 - 80 'F and like a ph of 6.5 - 7.0.

As far as other species go I think that is totally down to personal preference, I think most people have things like arrowana, prochilodus, datnioides or large cichlids but it really is down to personal taste.

September 1, 2008
11:01 am
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Malti
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any particular ray species like Motoro? got a mate who has some would ask him for you

September 1, 2008
11:09 am
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ndc
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on the whole an easy species of fish to keep i think as long as you see them feeding when you buy, never buy a ray that wont feed - they are pigs and you can always tell when somethings upsetting them as they wont eat - used to be a great pointer as even if they wanted a water change they wouldnt feed but the second the water change was done they feed again. they like a lot of oxygen in the tank and often like to 'float' on bubbles from airstones. keep them very well filtered - low nitrates and large water changes, used to do at least 2 25-20% a week. also i wouldnt go for any ray smaller than about 6 inch as they are too much trouble to feed, needing bloodworm etc, when they get to about 6" they will happily take prawns etc. as for ph they dont seem too bothered as long as its stable and temp around 26 degreec c. im thinking of going back to rays myself next month and one of the best ive seen that doesnt need mega tanks are the p.retic sp magdalene - they were very nice looking - a bit like schroederi with the rosettes but they also had markings on the underside of their discs and were sexually mature at about 7-8 inches for the males so a good breeding project

September 1, 2008
11:27 am
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Jarcave
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These are fish I know a little bit about now. NDC has highlighted the main issue, many small rays are imported that don't feed well. So larger specimens are probably a better bet. They do eat lots of prawn and earthworms. Try and vary their diet though. Again, see the fish feed well before you buy it. Ideally a day or two later....

Many sources advise that these fish need near impecabble water quality. However, they are tolerant of NO3 levels upto 25 ppm. Although it should go without saying that their diet requires both high powered filtration and regular water changes.

Don't bother with plants, and be very careful not to crowd the tank etc with decor that takes up their floor space.

Finally many fish sold as "hystrix" are not the real thing. Identifying a lot of these fish can be near impossible.

As for other species, anything sizeable really. They are not particularly aggrsive. However don't keep them with plecs as it's well know that many plecs munch on them.

Hope that helps?

Jared

September 1, 2008
12:19 pm
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ndc
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ive just read the other post about the tank, id think carefully about adding anything else in the depth of tank your looking at as healthy rays are active rays and they will bother other fish in that depth of water but it is a good floorspace so you could maybe look at pims or something like that - an active catfish that is quite calm and doesnt get spooked a lot. jarcave is right about hystrix, you wont see them as they were banned from export a couple of years ago - they also have distinctive patterns - most fish that you will come across will be either motoro, orbignyi or retic unless you want to splash out, for the size of tank motoro are the easiest for new ray keepers or decent size retic - orbignyi are easy to keep as well but they dont look as nice fully grown. if you want a different kind (or to be honest any kind) id import direct yourself - there is a little risk but are much cheaper than shops . other benefit is that most wholesaler/shops dont take good care of them when they are first imported - the most important part of the chain and if you look after them when they first arrive they will benefit greatly from this. another thing to add is that i dealt well over 100 rays of different kinds - henlei,motoro,magdalene,retic,schroederi directly imported and the only rays that we lost were some very small retics (id never order in anything less than 6 inch now) and 1 schroederi who was emaciated when he arrived and just wouldnt feed - he was too far past it. all tho other ones were spot on.

September 1, 2008
12:36 pm
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Jarcave
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Happy to send you contact details for a Peruvian exporter and details on how to get your DOF7 license Russell.

However, for it to be economically viable (Carriage is expensive!!!) you would need to be purchasing several fish. My mate "Rock" will sell you a 1.5 meter Arapaima gigas too if you want one... lol They farm them as food fishes out there and can be legally imported with the right paperwork... Not that you'd want one, or the freight charge mind!

September 1, 2008
12:43 pm
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ndc
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rather than bothering with all the import stuff theres a couple of people who i know who import regularly who will give you a good price, as i said before im probably going to start keeping them again in a month or two so would be happy to arrange something with mine, this keeps down the freight charges as if you were to import direct yourself you need about 20 boxes or so for it to be worthwhile also the farms themselves tend to give the best fish to regular customers

September 1, 2008
1:43 pm
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Jarcave
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QUOTE (ndc @ Sep 1 2008, 01:26 PM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
rather than bothering with all the import stuff theres a couple of people who i know who import regularly who will give you a good price, as i said before im probably going to start keeping them again in a month or two so would be happy to arrange something with mine, this keeps down the freight charges as if you were to import direct yourself you need about 20 boxes or so for it to be worthwhile also the farms themselves tend to give the best fish to regular customers

Rock will ship you one box ndc. So long as you pay the freight and fee. Nor do they ask for a pet traders license. Just a BIP airport and wire transfer (US $). You just need a DOF7 and to fax a form to them at least 24 hours before hand. It may be worth you two consolodating an order. Small tigrinus cats are $70 each, I say that as I know Russel also likes his big cats. Just a thought....

Ultimately it depends on what fish you want. Large rays will only ship one per box etc, so if you're after a fair collection I'd say it's definately worth investigating.

Matt, unsure if trade prices are allowed on a public forum, so delete if not. /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

EDIT:

Direct imports do quite obviously come with their own risks.
Everything should be quarantened properly (This can take upto 6 weeks). Not every commercial importer does do this.

September 1, 2008
2:36 pm
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Matt
Málaga, Spain
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Yeah we'd best not mention prices on the forums Jared, cheers. /thumbs_up.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumbsup:" border="0" alt="thumbs_up.gif" />

Russell you might want to have a read of our ray profiles (do a search for Potamotrygon in the Knowledge Base), they're almost edited and most have what I think is pretty good info. Pics aren't the best though unforunately. Need to rectify that. I'd be careful about tankmates if you're keeping the tank open-topped. Arowana would be a definite no-no for example. If you want to breed them you might want to omit other species altogether. If you go for the sand substrate plus tankmates I think big Geophagus look brilliant with rays. /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Cake or death?
September 1, 2008
3:12 pm
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Matt
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I hate you guys. Went to have a look at the Potamotrygon profiles after brazenly recommending them. Spotted some minor things I wasn't happy with and have spent the last hour editing them all when I'm supposed to be looking for somewhere to live. /rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" /> /laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="Laugh" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

Neill interesting what you say about the substrate in the other thread. I agree with you that they should always be kept on sand but I've read (and been involved in) a few fruity discussions in which people are saying they're fine in bare tanks as long as the maintenance and everything else is up to scratch.

One of the products of the trade that really wind me up are these "Batman" rays which I may have mentioned before on here. This is supposed to be a P. motoro. Disgusting in my view:

[Image Can Not Be Found]

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Cake or death?
September 1, 2008
5:05 pm
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dunc
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I can barely even stand to look at that picture /sad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad.gif" />

According to Bleher, 'rays are quite often found in the discus habitat during high water periods.. and as Jarcave mentioned, very difficult to accurately identify.

September 1, 2008
5:14 pm
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ndc
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hi matt, dont like the 'batman' rays either but it seems to stem from a birth defect ie the disc not forming correctly during the pregnancy and can be likened to a hair lip in humans - from research ive read recently it cant be 'bred' into them becauseof this so it is unlikely well see these mass produced , thank god!
for the substrate i personally think it is a no brainer - the fish behave much more naturally if there is sand - ie they sift for their food as they would in the wild, also as a defence mechanism when they are stressed they will hide in the sand. i can see the argument about it being easier to keep them on glass bottom tanks (especially in shops etc) for cleanliness but for long term care it is 100% more natural on sand - more enjoyable for the fish and fishkeeper. i only ever have a very thin layer anyway - just enough for them to bury and they tend to move it around the tank to suit themselves anyway.
jarcave - what i meant by the 20 boxes was the fact that the cost of shipping was not worthwhile unless you were doing it in bulk as the airline charges per kilo are extremely expensive for just 1 box (ie £120/box for 1 box , £30 per box for 20 boxes etc) so if there is 1 ray per box (say the ray is £10 for a motoro for example) and the freight is £120 for the box it means that the fish landed cost would be £130, if you have 20 boxes that particular fish then becomes £40 and so on. obviously there are freight companies in this country which you can buy 1 box from and they give you a good cost as they add it to the total order with the airline - this is the route i used to go through as you get the choice with a good price for a smaller order (i used to bring in say 6-8 boxes at a time) and its the route ill use again if i go for the rays

September 2, 2008
10:39 am
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Malti
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I personally don't mind the batman rays, as long as they're natural

a mate's of mine started into rays...this might interest you

September 2, 2008
5:38 pm
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ndc
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seems a bit small 48 x 28 for 1 motoro never mind a breeding pair or trio, motoro easily get to 20inch without the tail within a couple of years from the 10inch he has now

September 3, 2008
12:25 pm
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Matt
Málaga, Spain
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Totally agree Neill. He needs something more like twice the size.

Cake or death?
September 3, 2008
3:13 pm
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Malti
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I'll tell him...thx for the feedback

October 22, 2008
8:17 pm
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Sojapat
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June 23, 2008
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I find some of the comments on this topic a bit disturbing . /wacko.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wacko:" border="0" alt="wacko.gif" />
IMO Do not try to import fishes directly ..
90% of the time you wont even get the fish
And there are other charges to consider.
As someone pointed out earlyer dont buy a fish that is not feeding.
How can you see this When it is still in South America
You can buy rays from several breeders.
They are often available on Aquarists classified , Ready done ..
Most rays prefare 82-84f
Dont be put off rays they are great fish ..
Make sure the tank is big enough but you can start off most pups in 48"x15"x15"
If you like them move them on to larger digs.
They do not like the ph to go below 6
The water must be trubid no dead areas .
Rays do come from areas where discus live but they will try to eat discus particularly tank bred rays
They are more aggresive feeders.
Here is a habitat picture of stingrays.
I think the discus may have been washed away down stream /laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="Laugh" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

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October 22, 2008
9:07 pm
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Jarcave
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It's awful to see a ray in such a small tank in that bottom picture. Even worse when you see the habitat they come from. /angry.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":angry:" border="0" alt="angry.gif" /> /angry.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":angry:" border="0" alt="angry.gif" /> /angry.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":angry:" border="0" alt="angry.gif" />

October 23, 2008
12:39 am
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Matt
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I think the fish in the second pic is is in a transport container so no need to get stressed? Sojapat given your comments do you get your rays from tank-bred sources then?

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