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Rhinogobius yaoshanensis
May 25, 2012
12:59 am
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Plaamoo
Bellingham, Washington U.S.A.
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This looks like r. duospilus to me? Is this and old, invalid name??

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin.....1337999836

May 25, 2012
3:31 am
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Ferrika
Brunswick / Germany
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Hi Jim,

This is definitely not a duospilus. But the complex of duospilus-like is very large and it is very difficult to determine them, especially since you do not get all the paper, you need to do so. The name is valid in the fish-database and not a synonym for R. duospilus.
I thank you for the link, because I have one of its kind and could not quite place him at all so far. Now the child has finally a (even though vague) name :-)

greets Jutta
May 25, 2012
4:11 am
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Plaamoo
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Thanks for that Jutta, and....happy to helpSmile I thought duospilus was the only one with the red slashes on the throat. I wish I had room for these. They're not expensive, though from the pic they look like all males. I did email the seller so might get more info?

May 25, 2012
1:03 pm
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Ferrika
Brunswick / Germany
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Jim, I saw the same as you. Looks like they all are males. This would be a shame. I have one pair, but until today they didn't spawn. Perhaps I try to keep them on the balcony, so maybe this will bring them in the mood.

Btw.: Some of the duospilus-complex have one, two or more dark stripes on their gill cover. This and the red spots or stripes on branchiostegal membrane are include attributes for identification. If you look at the animal on your pic, you see 3 stripes and two points. R. duospilus has 2 stripes, no points. And the number of red stripes on branchiostegal membrane are different too.

 

If you can receive more informations, you would make me happy Laugh

greets Jutta
May 25, 2012
6:27 pm
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mikev
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per vendor (I talked to her yesterday) she has 30 of them, so all males would be unlikely... but she does not have a sense on how to sex them. Heiko's trip photos of r.yaoshanensis should be somehow useful... but it is not obvious it is the same fish, and even if it is i don't know just how Heiko sexed (and id'd) them.

May 25, 2012
6:48 pm
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Plaamoo
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Jutta. I assume you've seen Heiko's pictures? Mike just sent me this link. Heiko's pics of r. yaoshanensis look different than the aquabid fish, don't you think??

 

http://www.aquapress-bleher.co.....038;id=502

May 25, 2012
11:28 pm
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Ferrika
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Unfortunately, Heiko's identifications are not always reliable. He identified the animals probably using a book wherein exist only drawings, but sometimes not carefully enough. That's why I'm always very careful to take these terms. Too bad, I've been trying long to get this book.
But in this report maybe the right identification, you see, he labled the second animal as "cf. duospilus". That's right, because the animal has three stripes, not two. But if he has the R. yaoshanensis identified properly, there is no similarity between the two spezies of Heiko and the auction :-)

I think if someone are not concerned almost exclusively with these types, you have no an eye for the full details of which are very tricky. I myself am in the meantime very careful with the identifications. Mostly it is a cf., very rarely I can really say quite clearly: yes, this is this species.

However, there is obviously two different types in Heiko's and the auction. Whether one actually both or neither are the Rhinogobius yaoshanensis will be difficult to determine, without papers.

Mike, was the naming of the sale animals on the basis of Heiko's pictures?

The Sexing is by the way always very easy, Mike. The females are almost always relatively colorless and have no colored dorsal fins, at most something blue.

greets Jutta
May 25, 2012
11:57 pm
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mikev
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Ferrika said

Mike, was the naming of the sale animals on the basis of Heiko's pictures?

 

Sorry?

The Sexing is by the way always very easy, Mike. The females are almost always relatively colorless and have no colored dorsal fins, at most something blue.

Yes, this is one of the things i suggested to the vendor.  I also asked to check if some of the fish does not have red "scarf" (cf. diospilus) and look at the head size (males may have larger and more square-shaped head).  She did not get back to me, however, so i'm not sure I want to go ahead.

May 25, 2012
11:59 pm
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Plaamoo
Bellingham, Washington U.S.A.
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Ferrika said
I think if someone are not concerned almost exclusively with these types, you have no an eye for the full details of which are very tricky.

 That's why we ask you JuttaWink This detective work is part of the fun of fishkeeping! I'm really getting to like these rhino sp.! Need ,more room!!

The vendor told me that she has emailed her supplier for more info and is awaiting his reply. I also linked her to your site and this thread.

Having trouble separating the quote from my comment?

May 26, 2012
5:02 am
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mikev
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I guess neither of us bid? (I did not, the rationale is that she promised to get back to me about sexing and did not..... and with not knowing what the fish is this set my bidding limit much lower).

Just for the fun of it... there is another fish on AB which I'm thinking about... listed was a group of 5. Email conversation:

 

Me: what kind of sex ratio can I expect?

Vendor: 2:3 or 3:2, higher probability on the former.

 

Huh? 2m:3f or 2f:3m? Anyway, either way is probably good enough.... but the phrasing is still funnyLaugh

May 26, 2012
5:20 am
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Ferrika
Brunswick / Germany
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I fear that the supplier is not able to give more information. Unfortunately, getting as many stations between fishing and dealers that is often barely detectable, where the animals came.
Regarding the issue of gender distribution: in the photo itself in the background, the animals easily recognizable as a male. I have looked at the picture closely and therefore could not see any females.

Mike, my question to the identification of vendor: I thought perhaps you had already asked on what basis she has identified the animals.

 

Jim, can decipher it yet Laugh

 

Huh? The auction is closed?

greets Jutta
May 26, 2012
5:45 am
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Plaamoo
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I didn't bid, really had no business thinking about it. Not all that cheap in the end. I haven't heard back from her either. She said she had 27 so they are still available if wanted.

I agree Jutta. I have requested info so many times from suppliers and never received any. Once they're bought and paid for, that's it!

 

@Mike, it's always an adventure! Why I usually opt to pay more and have my choice in person. If available that is.

May 26, 2012
5:48 am
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Ferrika
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I took a look at the auctions on AB. I'm very amazed, what species are listened there. And the prices... very expensive.

Jim, did you see, that there are R. leavelli offered? But $15 per animal? Wow! I must think about my prices :-)

 

What makes me sad, is this offering: http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin.....1338592514 This animals are so very sensitive, they often dosen't survival the shipping or the changing of water quality. They are in china on the red list and I wonder yet again how they can be exported. I hope, that from this offered group will some animals survival. With us have survived only 4 of 80 animals.

greets Jutta
May 26, 2012
6:36 am
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Plaamoo
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Yes Jutta, That's what I paid for my rhinos from the same source.They are the biggest supplier of the West coast.

I'm not familiar with the  sineleotris saccaharae. I have spoken with them and had fish shipped directly and they seem reasonable. If you have info about the redlist PM me and I'll call and see what I can find out. From what I read, it seems fish in Europe & the U.K. are generally treated better than here in the land of capitalism.

May 26, 2012
6:45 am
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mikev
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Ferrika said

Mike, my question to the identification of vendor: I thought perhaps you had already asked on what basis she has identified the animals.

 

 

No, I stopped asking this question many years ago. The answer is usually "this is how it appeared on the export list" and this does not mean anything. 

And yes, the photo _seems_ to show only males.  Interestingly, I saw this fish imported once before, in 2009, see photos here, and again looks like all males?  Too bad I could not go and look at the fish.. :(

$15 for r.leavelli: is this cheap or expensive? (to me this seems cheap... rhinogobius other than r.diospilus seem to be always >$10, can be as high as $40).

May 26, 2012
8:23 pm
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Ferrika
Brunswick / Germany
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Jim, as I get my Sineleotris saccharae, I searched for Informations about them and found two sites, where was published, that they are on red list only in China. This is the only information, I could take. My importer got 80 of 300 animals, that where caught. 220 died on the way to exportstation, and then 73 died at my importer. The rest was send to me and then died another 3 animals until I found out the needing of water quality, temperature and as I picked up all the bacteria intolerances. The remaining 4 are doing well now. But it was a pretty stony path.

Mike, I take for R. leavelli € 8, or $ 10. Rhinogobius duospilus dealt with us with 3.5 €. Only the Sineleotris were with us far more expensive with 19.95 € Wholesale price, ie € 60 on sale. (And R. zhoui are very expensive too with € 50 per animal.)

greets Jutta
May 30, 2012
4:45 pm
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mikev
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It is very difficult to compare the prices between tank-raised and wild-caught (I take it that I take for refers to the price you charge for the fish you raise yourself?).   Generally, tank-raised is cheaper... as a simple example, the standard price for wild caught danios is $5.. but tank-raised F1's can be $2.50.

Ferrika, I'm pretty curious about the price on L10A in Europe... would you happen to know?

OK... I probably need to be certified insane but I bid on her loaches. She does not know how to ship -- I had to convince her to overnight and still, the fish -- just arrived -- does not look happy at all, too little water and no oxygenation.   No DOA's, but I have a bad feeling about how many will remain by tomorrow... :( Hillies that lie on their backs and barely move gills are not inspiring confidence ... fingers crossed.

May 30, 2012
6:04 pm
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Ferrika
Brunswick / Germany
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Hi Mike,

L10A... between 5 and 25 Euro. Depending on size...

As for the price for my R. leavelli: yes, they are offsprings, but they are more expencive as wild caughts, because I'm the only one, that is breeding this species. For the wild caughts the price is 5 Euro and for my offsprings by me 8 Euro, at retail 12 Euro. And wild caughts come almost just as by-catches to Germany.

 

Cross my fingers for your unhappy fish. I hope, he will make it....

greets Jutta
May 30, 2012
6:24 pm
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mikev
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Thanks Jutta,

(too bad you are not in the US... I'd be most interested in your offsprings!)

 

The new fish btw is HO1.... I tried to revive them by putting strong airstones right into the bags (hit them with oxygen before it is too late)...after half-hour in a blender they look a bit better... we'll see tomorrow.

May 30, 2012
8:33 pm
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Plaamoo
Bellingham, Washington U.S.A.
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Thanks Jutta. I also searched google for Sineleotris saccharae but found nothing about redlist and very little in general. If you can, pass those sites to me. Keep us posted on the final 4.

 

Mike, no gobies?? Hope the H01s make it. They appear to be more fragile than other homaloptera but I haven't lost any yet. How many did you get?

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