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Wild Angels
June 7, 2008
2:51 pm
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Neal-DA
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Hey all just picked up some wild caught angels

They were sold as altums but are the peruvian scalare's (guy in the shop argued otherwise /rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" /> )
Anyone have experience with these?
Is breeding a possibility?

They are currently being kept with groups of dicrossus maculatus, cory davidsandsi/melini/duplicarous and a big breeding group of emperor tetras

Hoping for baby angels, any tips?

Cheers, Neal /thumbs_up.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumbsup:" border="0" alt="thumbs_up.gif" />

June 7, 2008
10:24 pm
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dunc
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Mmm nice one Neal, how much did they set you back? Maculatus too? Awesome /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> I managed to get fry off my maculatus.. they only lasted about a week before the parents ate them though, then the male battered the female /sad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad.gif" />

Sorry, bit off topic /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> Get some pics up when you get a chance.

The wild scalare will lay and fertilise fairly easily once you've got a pair, but hatching can be problematic. The water needs to be uber soft - though if you're keeping D. maculatus I'd imagine it's pretty soft already /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> I've read pure RO with drips of hydrogen peroxide can be used to artificially hatch the eggs if you find you're having problems.

June 8, 2008
12:59 am
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Matt
Málaga, Spain
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Very nice fish Neal. We had a group in at Tom's last year. I'd go for a similar approach to yer wild caught Apistogramma first and then work from there. Very soft water, pH below 6 and maybe some leaf litter or peat fibre for the black water effect. It's crazy but it might just work. /tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />

Cake or death?
June 8, 2008
11:14 am
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David Marshall
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Hey Neal-DA

If you visit the articles section of the Ryedale Aquarist Society website at http://www.ryedaleaquaristsociety.co.uk you will find 'Angels at Christmas' plus a reply article and these both give good 'hints and tips' for Angel breeding.

Regards David

June 8, 2008
11:22 am
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dunc
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As far as I can see that article doesn't specify whether or not wild angels were involved.

I was under the impression that breeding wild-caught Angels presented a tougher challenge than breeding captive-breds?

June 8, 2008
1:17 pm
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Matt
Málaga, Spain
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I actually don't think that the mass-bred angels you see everywhere can be referred to as P. scalare any more. The level of inbreeding and the fact that the fish being used for breeding are almost certainly many generations away from wild fish mean that their habits/water requirements etc. don't resemble the wild fish at all. They're even a different shape! When I get round to editing the angel profile in the knowledge base there will be two, Pterophyllum scalare and P. "scalare". Common name for the second one would be "domestic angelfish" or something like that I suppose...

Cake or death?
June 9, 2008
9:19 pm
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David Marshall
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Hey

From what I am told the breeding of wild caught P. altum is extremely difficult whereas scalare from the wild can be bred without to many problems.

Yes the articles cover the Koi variety but the breeding hints and tips can be used for Angels which are either domestic or wild strains.

Regards David

June 10, 2008
2:49 pm
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Haji Badaruddin
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June 3, 2008
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I was told that altum do best in deep tanks ...... Saw a few years back some friends breeding them.In my opinion,the problem with altums that we have available here is that most of them die after arrival probably due to poor conditioning and packing.

June 10, 2008
3:29 pm
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Matt
Málaga, Spain
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They´re not so common and invariably in bad condition when they arrive here too, Haji. Most of the ones that come in as altum also seem to be wild scalare like Neal´s fish. /rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" /> Are they adults by the way Neal?

Cake or death?
June 11, 2008
3:15 pm
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Neal-DA
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Yes matt they are adult fish, really good size too, atleast 7" top to bottom!

June 11, 2008
8:41 pm
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Matt
Málaga, Spain
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Sound very nice indeed mate /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> So did you decide whether to progress with a breeding project or not?

Cake or death?
August 5, 2008
8:59 am
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Phill Austen
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July 10, 2008
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QUOTE (Matt @ Jun 10 2008, 04:12 PM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
They´re not so common and invariably in bad condition when they arrive here too, Haji. Most of the ones that come in as altum also seem to be wild scalare like Neal´s fish. /rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" /> Are they adults by the way Neal?

I had hoped that the Altum mortality in Spain was a bit better than the UK due to the more direct flights from SA. The fish that turn up in the UK tend to be via Miami (even more opportunity for delay) this is after delays in Bogota.
Phill

August 5, 2008
2:43 pm
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Matt
Málaga, Spain
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Hi Phill, I doubt they even get P. altum here in Spain, the hobby here is weird. I was in England when I posted the message you quoted... /biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" /> /tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />

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