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New Project: Different Apisto What?
February 5, 2012
6:08 pm
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Michelle
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So I now have my A. Borelli. Lovely fish, well chuffed.

My kribs are still sitting on a brood of a dozen or so little 'uns.

But my mind is already wondering to what next? It'll be a few months before I do anything (and dependant on my A. Borellii doing well) but I want to start thinking about research, planning ahead.

I want to try another Apisto. Already done A. Cacatuoides and A. Agassizzi years back.

I have a 60l tank, when I move the kribs out, which I'm thinking to set up similar to the A. Borellii tank. Pots, bogwood, plants and air filter. My tap water is 7.5ph and >14gh. So far the RO has worked a treat for the A. Borellii keeping a nice even 6.8ph and 7-10gh.

I'm thinking A. Cruzi, A. Euonotus, A. Hongsloi, A. Trifasciata maybe ...?

Anybody have any ideas? What's your experience? Would these species suit? Maybe you know something better suited or more interesting? Where should I be looking to get my hands on them?

I do want to try something a bit more unusual than the run of the mill types. Though not too tricky, I'm still a novice.

February 9, 2012
10:23 am
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ste12000
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QUOTE (Michelle @ Feb 5 2012, 05:51 PM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
So I now have my A. Borelli. Lovely fish, well chuffed.

My kribs are still sitting on a brood of a dozen or so little 'uns.

But my mind is already wondering to what next? It'll be a few months before I do anything (and dependant on my A. Borellii doing well) but I want to start thinking about research, planning ahead.

I want to try another Apisto. Already done A. Cacatuoides and A. Agassizzi years back.

I have a 60l tank, when I move the kribs out, which I'm thinking to set up similar to the A. Borellii tank. Pots, bogwood, plants and air filter. My tap water is 7.5ph and >14gh. So far the RO has worked a treat for the A. Borellii keeping a nice even 6.8ph and 7-10gh.

I'm thinking A. Cruzi, A. Euonotus, A. Hongsloi, A. Trifasciata maybe ...?

Anybody have any ideas? What's your experience? Would these species suit? Maybe you know something better suited or more interesting? Where should I be looking to get my hands on them?

I do want to try something a bit more unusual than the run of the mill types. Though not too tricky, I'm still a novice.

Hi Michelle, how about joining the BCA forum, we have all the UK's(and Europes) leading dwarf cichlid experts under one roof.. Its a friendly place and ONE of the best places to discuss dwarfs and especially Apistogramma http://www.britishcichlid.org.uk/phpBB3/

Any of the mentioned fish would be fine for your next project, A.eunotus are beautiful fish and easy to breed, i currently have plenty of fry from a wild pair which may be ready when you start your next project?
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Apistogramma hongsloi is another very beautiful Apisto but most stocks are mass produced so be careful with selection, look for deformaties and small stunted fish.
Very pretty though and easy to breed,
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Apistogramma trifasciata is a very pretty fish with big fins and stunning colours. Again this is one of the easier to find fish and is bred commercially in Europe, occasionally wild shipments do come through and again the BCA forum is usually the best place to find out whats currently available in the UK dwarf cichlid hobby. A.trifasciata are easy to keep and breed but not very prolific, 20-30 fry is around the average.
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The true Apistogramma cruzi(as defined by the Holotype) is a very rare fish in the hobby, only one genuine collection has taken place in the last decade and a few fish were spread out into the hobby. As far i i know these have not become established and may once again become a almost mythical species similar to the true A.veijita(all A.veijita sold in shops up and down the country are domestic forms of macmasteri!)
If your buying a fish labeled as A.cruzi you can expect either a A.eunotus variant or possible a A.sp 'Pebas' group fish. Its extremely unlikely to be true A.cruzi.

Hope this helps and whets your appitite for Apistos.. Im mad on them aswell and it gets addictive collecting and breeding all the various species.

February 9, 2012
11:08 am
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Matt
Málaga, Spain
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QUOTE
Hi Michelle, this forum isnt really the place to post about Dwarf cichlids, not many members keep them, how about joining the BCA forum, we have all the UK's(and Europes) leading dwarf cichlid experts under one roof.. Its a friendly place and the best place to discuss dwarfs and especially Apistogramma http://www.britishcichlid.org.uk/phpBB3/

Er, pardon? /blink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blink:" border="0" alt="blink.gif" />

Cake or death?
February 9, 2012
11:14 am
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ste12000
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July 27, 2011
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QUOTE (Matt @ Feb 9 2012, 10:51 AM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
Er, pardon? /blink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blink:" border="0" alt="blink.gif" />

I didnt mean to upset you guys but its true, Michelles question went unanswered for 4 days solid! it would of been answered within minutes at the BCA because we have many more Apistogramma hobbiests within our ranks.

Seriously fish is one of the best forums/websites on the web, you cant be good at everything and cichlids are not your priority.. Nothing wrong with that and after all who could be better at cichlids than the specialists???? /tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />

February 9, 2012
11:24 am
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Matt
Málaga, Spain
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Ste, I've no issue whatsoever with the BCA being endorsed here, links being posted, etc., but to do so in such a way that undermines this site is not ok in my opinion since I would never, and never have, done the same myself elsewhere.

To give you an example, we don't focus on any particular fish or fishes, so to say a certain group is "not our priority" gives a false impression, and in fact is just plain wrong.

Cake or death?
February 9, 2012
11:53 am
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ste12000
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QUOTE (Matt @ Feb 9 2012, 11:07 AM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ste, I've no issue whatsoever with the BCA being endorsed here, links being posted, etc., but to do so in such a way that undermines this site is not ok in my opinion since I would never, and never have, done the same myself elsewhere.

To give you an example, we don't focus on any particular fish or fishes, so to say a certain group is "not our priority" gives a false impression, and in fact is just plain wrong.

Ooops, Sorry Matt, i really didnt mean that to be confrontational nor offensive. Im sorry that your upset by my post, your more than welcome to remove the whole thing.

It was not my intention to damage the reputation of this website/forum..Not at all.. My point was that you do not have many MEMBERS that focus on cichlids, not the forum itself..

Please remove my upsetting post and consider my arse slapped..

February 9, 2012
11:58 am
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Matt
Málaga, Spain
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How's about we leave it as is and remove some of your fingernails instead? /biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" /> It's amazing what Dunc can do using only a pair of household pliers and a broom handle...

Cake or death?
February 9, 2012
12:25 pm
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ste12000
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Forum Posts: 93
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July 27, 2011
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QUOTE (Matt @ Feb 9 2012, 11:41 AM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
How's about we leave it as is and remove some of your fingernails instead? /biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" /> It's amazing what Dunc can do using only a pair of household pliers and a broom handle...

Sounds interesting, ill edit the first post because as i said i really didnt mean to cause trouble or upset. Looking back it could of been worded better!!

February 9, 2012
1:41 pm
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Michelle
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December 29, 2011
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Hi

Thanks for the advice, glad my little bit of research wasn't completely off the mark. I may well follow up on your A. Euonotus when I'm ready. Shame about A. Cruzi lovely looking fish. I did run across the A. Vijita/A. Macmasteri issue a couple of years ago. I bought what I thought was A. Viejita but iut clearly wasn't.

I didn't mean to start a fight guys.

I'm not much of a blogger. I joined this forum on the basis the knowledge base is excellent and so easy to follow, I've been using it for years, and the forum seemed really relaxed and friendly no matter how daft the question. Other forums don't deal with novices and amateurs with their inane questions in nearly so friendly a manner as you guys do.

I'll look up the BCA as well. There's so much contradictory adivce out there its always worth cultivating different perspectives. Also, I thought/assumed they were a bit more serious than dealing with the likes of me and my amateur questions and hadn't looked into it at all.

Keep smiling.

Michelle

February 9, 2012
2:00 pm
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ste12000
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July 27, 2011
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QUOTE (Michelle @ Feb 9 2012, 01:24 PM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi

Thanks for the advice, glad my little bit of research wasn't completely off the mark. I may well follow up on your A. Euonotus when I'm ready. Shame about A. Cruzi lovely looking fish. I did run across the A. Vijita/A. Macmasteri issue a couple of years ago. I bought what I thought was A. Viejita but iut clearly wasn't.

I didn't mean to start a fight guys.

I'm not much of a blogger. I joined this forum on the basis the knowledge base is excellent and so easy to follow, I've been using it for years, and the forum seemed really relaxed and friendly no matter how daft the question. Other forums don't deal with novices and amateurs with their inane questions in nearly so friendly a manner as you guys do.

I'll look up the BCA as well. There's so much contradictory adivce out there its always worth cultivating different perspectives. Also, I thought/assumed they were a bit more serious than dealing with the likes of me and my amateur questions and hadn't looked into it at all.

Keep smiling.

Michelle

Michelle, we are all amateurs and all still learning! im sure most forums are most welcoming to questions like yours.. Pop in at the BCA and introduce yourself, its as friendly as Seriously fish and you will be made welcome.

Have a read all about A.cruzi and its collection here.. Toms site is a must have for all serious Apisto fans! http://apisto.sites.no/page.as.....?PageId=60

February 9, 2012
5:29 pm
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Michelle
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December 29, 2011
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Already on my faves! One of the places I go to do my 'research' (well 'admiring the pics' and dreaming up a new tank). His collecting adventures are a fun read.

I'd love to keep all of these species but time and space will only allow so much. I'll invest in a RO filter thingy one day and maybe then another tank or two ...

February 11, 2012
6:00 pm
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valve21
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January 21, 2012
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Don't you have to pay a fee to join the B.C.A???

February 11, 2012
8:23 pm
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Michelle
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Forum membership is free. There is a fee for full membership, £5 I believe. Plenty of useful info on the non-members area though.

February 12, 2012
12:40 pm
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valve21
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January 21, 2012
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Oh, Excellent,
thanks.

February 12, 2012
6:21 pm
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Fishcrazy1
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January 9, 2012
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QUOTE (ste12000 @ Feb 9 2012, 10:57 AM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
I didnt mean to upset you guys but its true, Michelles question went unanswered for 4 days solid! it would of been answered within minutes at the BCA because we have many more Apistogramma hobbiests within our ranks.

Seriously fish is one of the best forums/websites on the web, you cant be good at everything and cichlids are not your priority.. Nothing wrong with that and after all who could be better at cichlids than the specialists???? /tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />


Join the ************ forum. Loads of experienced members who keep everything from guppies to discus to marine angelfish.

February 12, 2012
7:26 pm
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Eyrie
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Other forums are available, but we would prefer that you provide assistance on SF.com rather than recommending posters try elsewhere. Particularly when it's your first post - gives the wrong impression about you.

Getting back on topic, I bought a pair of A. agassizi this afternoon.

Mature, sensible signature required for responsible position. Good prospects for the right candidate. Apply within.
February 12, 2012
11:12 pm
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ender2811
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March 10, 2011
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I'm also getting some A. agassizi this week and I have some questions.
The fish are not paired up and I would like a male and 3 F. The fish at LFS are distinctly different. Ones are predominantly yellow(female according to LFS guys), and others are more blue/dark grey with yellow and red(male). They are all at about 3cm.
I trust my LFS guys (all of them are fish nerds) but have red some stuff online where people bought females that turned out to be males later on and I would like to avoid that situation. Is the difference in coloration at this size enough for an ID? If not are there other more clear cut distinctions between the sexes? Also, would pieces of PVC pipe be an adequate housing for the females? I plan on carving out some caves in mopani wood but am having trouble finding the right size/shape pieces at the moment.

February 13, 2012
9:45 am
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Michelle
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I've kept A. Agassizzi before now. No expert, completely failed to get them to breed but they were a lovely fish. Wrong water parameters for spawning.

In this case I'm sure your LFS is correct, assuming they are old enough to sex. Young ones can be tricky but in older fish I've found Agi's easy to pick.

I'm sure there are less clear cut examples out there but in the main this is what I look out for (please excuse me if you know all this already):

Avoiding colour difference in the two sexes (just in case they're not coloured up or too young): The males will have longer more pointed dorsal and anal fins. Their caudal fins look like rockets, often quite pointed whereas the females are more rounded sometimes square. The males are larger, more torpedo shaped where the females are slightly shorter in length compared to their height. Females can have slightly pointed dorsal and anal fins but they are usually shorter in length. When flared the male's dorsal fin is a little taller than the female's. The male's ventral fins will be long and flowing, the females shorter.

As for the colour: The females are usually yellow with black markings, possibly a small amount of colour in their fins. The males will have blue or red fins normally, their caudal and dorsal especially. The black bars on their sides and face are pretty much the same. When coloured up females this will probably be much darker, the bar on their side may fade to a round blotch half way along their flank. The leading edge of their petorals will have thick black bars, the males none or much thinner.

Colour varies depending on mood and if they're quite young. Young and non displaying males may be yellow too. I normally find with most Apisto's the dorsal, anal and ventral fins are the give away. Stick with smaller, yellow fish with shorter fins for your females and you should be fine.

If there are younger fish at your LFS you may end up with a second male but take the risk, they're worth it!

What size is your tank? Do you have room for 1M and 3F? The females can be quite territorial in their own right.

Hope this helps. Enjoy.

February 13, 2012
10:06 am
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ender2811
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Thanks Michelle, helps a lot.
What were the water parameters when they failed to spawn? Was it just spawning that was an issue or were there other adverse effects on the fish?
Have you decided on your next project?

February 13, 2012
10:28 am
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Michelle
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I'm sure other people out there have much more experience with them, it may be my guys just didn't like each other ...

My water is quite hard: 7.5PH and >14GH. They prefer softer. They were quite happy in my harder water (same as the shop had them in) its just the spawn that eluded me. I'm no expert, only just started on Apisto's in earnest but I knew when I brought these guys my water was not ideal for spawning.

The knowledge base here suggests <10GH, and low PH for wild caught. I would think the PH is less important for tank bred stock but the softness is probably a must for spawning. NB: If you must change your water parameters do it very very slowly. Quick changes do kill fish. At the minute I'm strongly leaning towards A. Euonotus or A. Trifasciata. Seems with my tank size and set-up almost anything goes. So I may just decide depending what's available when I'm ready ...?

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