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Astyanax Aeneus And Fasciatus

Home Forums Fresh and Brackish Water Fishes Astyanax Aeneus And Fasciatus

This topic contains 20 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  johnpeten 8 years, 2 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 21 total)
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  • #300579

    johnpeten
    Participant

    We have finally gotten around to sorting out the two Astyanax species that we have in Guatemala. This genera is found throughout Mexico, Central And South America.
    Locally they are called Sardinas, they are very abundant and generally netted in the Lake shallows. They are used as bait fish for the large Petenia splendida (Bay Snook) or as a food fish (floured and fried whole, rather like we eat whitebait.)
    The fasciatus has very little colour and can grow to about 6 inches, although I have never seen any this large. They inhabit Lake Peten.
    The other species aeneus is very colourful and only grows to about 3 inches. This one inhabits the streams and rivers of the drainage to the North of Lake Peten.
    The colours of these fish varies from location to location which causes the usual confusion, sometimes. The striking feature of the aeneus is the black rhomboidal blotch on the tail which extends to the center of the caudal fin.
    My boys, who are now more mobil on their refurbished bicyles, brought back some of these from one of the jungle streams. They also assured me that they saw a crocodile in one of the small lagoons.
    The photo shows both species.

    Attached files

    #316767

    Matt
    Keymaster

    Is this colouration a permanent feature in both species John? And heh heh at your ‘boys’ on refurbished bikes – sounds like you’re doing a great job with them!

    #316770

    David Marshall
    Participant

    Hey John

    Have not seen Astyanax fasciatus in the non-cave form (pink and without sight) for many years. When I kept these fish I found them to be like the similar looking Buenos Aires Tetra (Hemigrammus caudovittatus) in behviour as they took great pleasure in ‘nipping’ fins.

    Regards David

    #316771

    johnpeten
    Participant

    QUOTE (Matt @ Feb 15 2010, 07:55 PM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
    Is this colouration a permanent feature in both species John?

    This is the normal colouration in this area. However the aeneus do tend to lose some of their colour after a few days in my tanks.
    Comments were made by a French team collecting in the area, that cichlids from the Lake had a lot less colour than from other habitats in the Peten. They put it down to the clarity of the Lake water and the almost white substrate.
    We have found that cichlids collected in the murky waters of the remote southern arm of the Lake and from the equally remote and obscure waters of the western end of the Lake are brightly coloured.
    An example of this is our indigenous and very prolific cichlid Paratheraps (Vieja) melanurus. Juvenile fish collected in the clear waters off the northern shore show no colour but those that we collected in the southern arm are brightly coloured, photo attached. This also applied to the Thorichthys affinis with their bright yellow bellies.

    Attached files

    #316772

    johnpeten
    Participant

    QUOTE (David Marshall @ Feb 16 2010, 04:14 AM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
    Hey John

    Have not seen Astyanax fasciatus in the non-cave form (pink and without sight) for many years. When I kept these fish I found them to be like the similar looking Buenos Aires Tetra (Hemigrammus caudovittatus) in behviour as they took great pleasure in ‘nipping’ fins.

    Regards David


    This the first time that we have kept the two sardinas together in a tank. Normally they are a very active fish and are in constant motion and are first in line at feeding time. We now see that fasciatus is chasing the aeneus who have gone into hiding. Probably jealous of their pretty colours

    #316779

    Matt
    Keymaster

    Perhaps the colours change in order to avoid predators in clear water?

    #316788

    johnpeten
    Participant

    QUOTE (Matt @ Feb 16 2010, 01:26 PM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
    Perhaps the colours change in order to avoid predators in clear water?


    A very reasonable assumption Matt. One of our most colourful cichlids is the “Cichlasoma” salvini. In the aquarium known to be aggressive when it is not being shy and hiding. In the wild it frequents habitats with murky water or areas with plenty of vegetation, tree roots etc in which to hide. In clear water it would stand out like a sore thumb. The second photo is of a C. salvini which came out of the clear waters of the Lake’s north shore a month ago. It took a while to realise what it was.
    This is one of several “Cichlasomas” in limbo waiting to be assigned a new genus after Kullander kicked several of our cichlids out of this genus in 1996.

    With regard to Astyanax you mention in your database that confusion exists. Considering the widespread distribution of this genus, not surprising. There are about 60 species listed. Looking at photos of supposedly one species, the variations are immense. The fasciatus is confused with mexicanus as just one example. This is a list of other names that have been used:-

    Tetragonopterus mexicanus Astyanax fasciatus mexicanus, Astianax mexicanus Astyanax argentatus, Tetragonopterus brevimanus, Tetragonopterus petenensis, Tetragonopterus fulgens, Tetragonopterus nitidus y Tetragonopterus streetsii.

    You also mention that Astyanax is rarely seen in the Aquarium Trade. I can understand this as they generally are very “plain Janes”. A. aeneus I find very attractive and lively, however its unexpected agressiveness towards its fellow Astyanax may not make it a good choice for a community tank.

    Attached files

    #316789

    Matt
    Keymaster

    The A. aeneus patterning really reminds me of Hyphessobrycon anisitsi – what do you think John? Lol not sure what the database mentions about Astyanax given I’ve not started editing the characin profiles yet but that info doesn’t actually sound too bad!

    #316793

    johnpeten
    Participant

    QUOTE (Matt @ Feb 16 2010, 05:25 PM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
    The A. aeneus patterning really reminds me of Hyphessobrycon anisitsi – what do you think John? Lol not sure what the database mentions about Astyanax given I’ve not started editing the characin profiles yet but that info doesn’t actually sound too bad! /rolleyes.gif” style=”vertical-align:middle” emoid=”:rolleyes:” border=”0″ alt=”rolleyes.gif” />

    The H. anisitsi is apparently only found in the south of South America. However they look like the same fish to me, especially the rhomboid blotch on the caudal fin. The Buenos Aires Tetra has been one of the favorite Aquarium fish for about 60 years, easy to keep.

    I will dig a little deeper

    Attached files

    #316802

    coelacanth
    Participant

    QUOTE (Matt @ Feb 16 2010, 11:25 PM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
    The A. aeneus patterning really reminds me of Hyphessobrycon anisitsi – what do you think John? Lol not sure what the database mentions about Astyanax given I’ve not started editing the characin profiles yet but that info doesn’t actually sound too bad!
    #316804

    johnpeten
    Participant

    QUOTE (coelacanth @ Feb 17 2010, 05:59 AM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
    You know, this is something that’s bothered me for a while, I really can’t tell the difference between what is supposed to be H. anisitsi and what I thought were A. fasciatus (John has them as A. aeneus, but either way they look like the fish we get as the Buenos Aires tetra).
    Makes me wonder what broodstock is actually being used to breed the fish sold as BA tets….


    To add to the confusion H. anisitsi is synonymous with Hemigrammus caudovittatus (photo attached).
    This fish, whichever genus it has been allocated, exists in habitats throughout Mexico south to Argentina. It obviously has many morphs and many collectors and ichthyologists have invented new species since their first discovery in the late 1800s.
    We, as far as we know, only have two morphs that live in different ends of town. We happily and simply call them sardines

    Attached files

    #316806

    Matt
    Keymaster

    To me these look different to your fish John – like a Hyphessobrycon with Astyanax patterning.

    #316810

    johnpeten
    Participant

    QUOTE (Matt @ Feb 17 2010, 07:22 AM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
    To me these look different to your fish John – like a Hyphessobrycon with Astyanax patterning. /laugh.gif” style=”vertical-align:middle” emoid=”:lol:” border=”0″ alt=”laugh.gif” /> below is an extract from http://www.webcityof.com/miff1010.htm#Astyanaxfasciatus
    I think this confirms my previous comments.
    You will notice that even people like Gunther, Boulenger, Hubbs and Meek manged to get their fingers in the pie.

    Astyanax abramis
    (Jenyns 1842, Bi:97, B5:52, AxB:164, ABE:349, Ge:427) “Confusing Astyanax”
    Astyanax abramoides
    (Eigenmann 1909, Ge:427)
    Astyanax aeneus See Astyanax fasciatus
    Astyanax albeolus ? See Bryconamericus albeolus
    Astyanax albeolus See Astyanax fasciatus
    Astyanax alburnus
    (Hensel 1870, Ge:419 Astyanax hassemani) Bryconamericus hassemani ?
    Astyanax angustifrons
    (Regan 1907, Ge:422)
    Astyanax anterior
    (Eigenmann 1908, Ge:407)
    Astyanax anteroides See Jupiaba anteroides
    Astyanax argentatus See Astyanax mexicanus
    Astyanax asymmetricus See Jupiaba asymmetrica
    Astyanax atratoensis
    (Eigenmann 1907, Ge:430)
    Astyanax aurocaudatus See Carlastyanax aurocaudatus
    Astyanax bartletti See Astyanax bimaculatus
    Astyanax bimaculatus
    (Linnaeus 1758, Bi:98, B1:255, I:160, AS:177, AxB:164, Ve:29, ABE:348, St:142, Ge:422, AV:F-92.00, AL:) Tetragonopterus orientalis, Tetragonopterus jacuhiensis, Poecilurichthys maculatus, Charax bimaculatus, Astyanax orientalis, Astyanax lacustris, Astyanax jacuhiensis, Astyanax bartletti, Tetragonopterus maculatus, Salmo bimaculatus, Astyanax brevoortii, Astyanax wappi “Two-Spot Astyanax” `Rautensalmler`
    Astyanax bourgeti
    (Eigenmann 1908, Ge:422)
    Astyanax brevirhinus
    (Eigenmann 1908, Bi:98, B4:80, Ge:422) `Stumpfmäuliger Tetra`
    Astyanax brevoortii See Astyanax bimaculatus
    Astyanax carolinae See Astyanax fasciatus
    Astyanax caucanus
    (Steindachner 1878, Ge:430)
    Astyanax cordovae
    (Günther 1880, Ge:419)
    Astyanax correntinus
    (Holmberg 1891, Ge:434 Ctenobrycon correntinus)
    Astyanax daguae
    (Eigenmann 1913, Bi:98, B5:52, AxB:164, Ge:422) “Plain-Tailed Astyanax”
    Astyanax eigenmanniorum
    (Cope 1894, Ge:423)
    Astyanax erythropterus
    (Holmberg 1891, Ge:426)
    Astyanax essequibensis See Jupiaba essequibensis
    Astyanax fasciatus
    (Cuvier 1819, Bi:98, B3:124, SS:38, AxB:159, ABE:349, St:144, Ge:418, TF:74 12/00 Astyanax aeneus, Ge:419 Astyanax albeolus, Ge:422 Astyanax fasciatus hanstroemi) Poecilurichthys fasciatus, Anoptichthys fasciatus, Astyanax carolinae, Astyanax grandis, Astyanax heteturius, Astyanax lacustris, Astyanax rutilus, Astyanax regani, Astyanax hanstroemi “American Stripe Tetra” “Silver Tetra” “Banded Astyanax” `Amerikanischer Steifensalmler`
    Astyanax fasciatus ? See Astyanax scabripinnis
    Astyanax fasciatus gisleni See Astyanax gisleni
    Astyanax fasciatus hanstroemi See Astyanax fasciatus
    Astyanax fasciatus janeiroensis See Astyanax janeiroensis
    Astyanax fasciatus jepuitinhonhae
    (St:144)
    Astyanax fasciatus jordani See Astyanax jordani
    Astyanax fasciatus kompi See Astyanax kompi
    Astyanax fasciatus macrophthalmus
    (St:145)
    Astyanax fasciatus mexicanus ? See Pseudocheirodon arnoldi
    Astyanax fasciatus mexicanus See Astyanax mexicanus
    Astyanax festae
    (Boulenger 1898, Ge:427)
    Astyanax filiferus
    (Eigenmann 1913, Ge:430)
    Astyanax gisleni
    (Dahl 1942, Ge:422 Astyanax fasciatus gisleni)
    Astyanax giton
    (Eigenmann 1908, Bi:98, B3:124, Ge:423)
    Astyanax goyacensis
    (Eigenmann 1908, Ge:430)
    Astyanax gracilior
    (Eigenmann 1908, Ge:426)
    Astyanax grandis See Astyanax fasciatus
    Astyanax guaporensis
    (Eigenmann 1911, Ge:426)
    Astyanax guianensis
    (Eigenmann 1909, Bi:99, B3:126, Ge:426) “Guyana Tetra”
    Astyanax gymnogenys
    (Eigenmann 1911, Ge:423)
    Astyanax hanstroemi See Astyanax fasciatus
    Astyanax hassemani ? See Bryconamericus hassemani
    Astyanax hassemani See Astyanax alburnus
    Astyanax heteturius See Astyanax fasciatus
    Astyanax integer
    (Myers 1930, Ge:419)
    Astyanax jacuhiensis See Astyanax bimaculatus
    Astyanax janeiroensis
    (Eigenmann 1908, Ge:422 Astyanax fasciatus janeiroensis)
    Astyanax jordani
    (Hubbs & Innes 1936, HD:87, Ge:423 Astyanax fasciatus jordani, AS: 171 Anoptichthys jordani, AV:F-38.00 Anoptichthys jordani) Anoptichthys jordani, Astyanax mexicanus jordani “Blind Cave Fish”
    Astyanax keithi
    (Géry, Planquette & Le Bail 1996)
    Astyanax kennedyi
    (Gery 1964, Ge:426, AxB:164, ABE:349)
    Astyanax kennedyi ? See Psellogrammus kennedyi
    Astyanax kompi
    (Hildebrand 1938, Ge:422 Astyanax fasciatus kompi)
    Astyanax lacustris See Astyanax bimaculatus
    Astyanax lacustris See Astyanax fasciatus
    Astyanax laticeps See Astyanax scabripinnis
    Astyanax leopoldi
    (Géry, Planquette & Le Bail 1988)
    Astyanax lineatus
    (Perugia 1891, Ge:422)
    Astyanax longior
    (Cope 1878, Ge:422)
    Astyanax macrophthalmus See Astyanax mexicanus
    Astyanax magdalenae
    (Eigenmann & Henn 1916, Ge:430)
    Astyanax marionae
    (Eigenmann 1911, Ge:422)
    Astyanax maroniensis
    (Géry, Planquette & Le Bail 1996)
    Astyanax maximus
    (Steindachner 1877, Bi:99, B4:82, Ge:422, AxB:165 Astyanax metae, ABE:348 Astyanax metae) “RioMeta Astyanax”
    Astyanax megaspilura
    (Fowler 1944, Ge:422)
    Astyanax metae See Astyanax maximus
    Astyanax meunieri
    (Géry, Planquette & Le Bail 1996)
    Astyanax mexicanus
    (De Filippi 1853, JG:252, Bi:98 Astyanax fasciatus mexicanus, B1:256 Astyanax fasciatus mexicanus, I:158 Astyanax fasciatus mexicanus, Sf:71 Astyanax fasciatus mexicanus, Ge:422 Astyanax fasciatus mexicanus, Sc:84, I:161 Anoptichthys jordani, AS:178, SS:39 Astyanax fasciatus mexicanus, T:59, AxB:159, Ve:30, ABE:350, St:145, St:146 Anoptichthys jordani, Gr:209, St1:86, AV:F-93.00, Vv:54 Astyanax fasciatus mexicanus, TF:99 12/94, A:287 6/56 Astyanax fasciatus mexicanus, TF:180 3/96, TF:78 8/95 Astyanax fasciatus mexicanus, AF:34 3/98, FM:132 3/97 Astyanax mexicanus fasciatus, AF:21 6/04 Astyanax fasciatus mexicanus) Anoptichthys antrobius, Anoptichthys hubbsi, Astyanax argentatus, Astyanax macrophthalmus “Mexican Tetra” “Blind Cavefish” “Blind Cave Tetra” “Blind Cave Characin” `Blinder Höhlensalmler`
    Astyanax mexicanus fasciatus See Astyanax mexicanus
    Astyanax mexicanus jordani See Astyanax jordani
    Astyanax microlepis
    (Eigenmann 1913, Ge:419)
    Astyanax mucronatus See Jupiaba mucronata
    Astyanax multidens
    (Eigenmann 1908, Ge:426)
    Astyanax mutator
    (Eigenmann 1909, Ge:423, AS:179, AV:F-94.00) “Mutator” “Punkay”
    Astyanax myersi
    (Fernandez-Yepez 1950, Ge:427)
    Astyanax nasutus
    (Meek 1907, Ge:522 Deuterodon nasutus)
    Astyanax nicaraguensis
    (Eigenmann & Ogle 1907, Ge:430)
    Astyanax nigripinnis See Markiana nigripinnis
    Astyanax ocellatus
    (Géry, Planquette & Le Bail 1996)
    Astyanax orientalis See Astyanax bimaculatus
    Astyanax orthodus
    (Eigenmann 1907, Gr:430)
    Astyanax paraguayensis
    (Fowler 1918)
    Astyanax paranahybae
    (Eigenmann 1911, Ge:423)
    Astyana
    x paucidens
    (Ulrey 1894, Ge:426)
    Astyanax pectinatus See Phenacogaster pectinatus
    Astyanax pedri
    (Eigenmann 1908, Ge:523 Deuterodon pedri)
    Astyanax pellegrini
    (Eigenmann & Kennedy 1903, Ge:434) Ctenobrycon correntinus ?
    Astyanax poetzschkei
    (Ahl 1932, Ge:427, St:146)
    Astyanax polylepis See Jupiaba polylepis
    Astyanax potaroensis
    (Eigenmann 1909, Ge:522 Deuterodon potaroensis)
    Astyanax regani See Astyanax fasciatus
    Astyanax regani See Bryconamericus regani
    Astyanax ribeirae
    (Eigenmann 1911, Bi:99, B4:82, Ge:422)
    Astyanax riesei See Axelrodia riesei
    Astyanax rosae
    (FM:136 3/97)
    Astyanax ruberrimus
    (Eigenmann 1913, St:146, Ge:422)
    Astyanax rutilus See Astyanax fasciatus
    Astyanax saltor
    (Travassos 1960, Ge:422)
    Astyanax scabripinnis
    (Jenyns 1842, Bi:99, B3:126, Ge:423) Tetragonopterus scabripinnis, Astyanax fasciatus ?, Astyanax laticeps “Rough-Finned Tetra” `Rauhflossensalmler`
    Astyanax schubarti
    (Britski 1964, Ge:422)
    Astyanax scintillans
    (Myers 1928, Ge:426)
    Astyanax sp
    (SS:35)
    Astyanax sp ‘1’
    (AxB:165, ABE:364) “Big-Scale Astyanax”
    Astyanax sp ‘2’
    (AxB:165) “Schultz’s Astyanax”
    Astyanax sp ‘3’
    (Bi:99, B5:54)
    Astyanax sp ‘Cabruta`
    (Bi:99, B5:54) `Cabrutasalmler`
    Astyanax sp Colombia
    (TF:18 1/98)
    Astyanax sp Lago Tefé
    (Bi:100, B4:84) `Goldflossensalmler`
    Astyanax stilbe
    (Cope 1870, Ge:430)
    Astyanax superbus
    (Myers 1942, Ge:430)
    Astyanax taeniatus
    (Jenyns 1842, Ge:430)
    Astyanax validus
    (Géry, Planquette & Le Bail 1991)
    Astyanax venezuelae
    (Schultz 1944, Ge:422)
    Astyanax wappi See Astyanax bimaculatus
    Astyanax zonatus See Jupiaba zonata

    #316813

    David Marshall
    Participant

    Hey

    Good thread going here John.

    Axelrod’s Mini-Atlas shows the slight differences in Hemigrammus caudovittatus and Astyanax fasciatus better than any other textbook I know of.

    Regards David

    #316818

    Matt
    Keymaster

    David, Hemigrammus caudovittatus is now synonymous with Hyphessobrycon anisitsi. Not intending to nit pick just thought it should be pointed out so the thread retains clarity. /wacko.gif” style=”vertical-align:middle” emoid=”:wacko:” border=”0″ alt=”wacko.gif” />

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