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Big Fish , Little Fish

Home Forums The Lounge Big Fish , Little Fish

This topic contains 21 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Malti 9 years, 7 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 22 total)
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  • #299468

    ndc
    Participant

    thought id throw open another discussion –
    what does everyone feel about the keeping of large fish? this topic seems to be the hot debate on other forums so we may as well have it here as well.
    personally, i dont mind people keeping fish that will potentially outgrow the tank, the reasons for this are-
    firstly- with large cat fish (especially red tails) and arowana (silvers) – for wild caught fish they would more than likely be predated on as juveniles, if they had grown to be adults again they would have a fair chance of predation (from humans) as these and every other species of mid to large size fish we keep as aquarium specemins are viewed on quite rightly as food in their native countries, by keeping them admittedly not in perfect conditions they are at least having some kind of extended existence. for these and all other wild caught fish – especially south american – the income from catching and supplying aquarium fish is extremely important to local people who would otherwise have no income or as in particularly Brazil would have to turn more and more land over to cattle and therefor completely destroying all types of habitat in those areas. this said it is not something i would personally do and i do not condone cruelty but if a fish is otherwise healthy but in smaller than ideal tanks then i dont have a particular problem with it. personally i have more of a problem people buying dyed, genetically altered fish as this in itself is cruel to the actual fish concerned, feel free to add opinions cheers

    #305507

    keith565
    Participant

    hmm, i agree with your argument for keeping them, in part. there are so many fish available, tank busters are not a necessity. even if they are used as a food fish.
    many tank busters end up dead due to the owner not being able to keep them in the right conditions, some are being left on the doorsteps of public aquariums who are over run by them. many are taken back to the shop that sold them only to be told they can’t take them back.
    as for dyed fish, 100% against. i had a ding dong with someone on ebay a few weeks ago as he was selling glass fish as disco fish. i reported him to ebay. i hasten to add, i will complain to any shop i see selling any dyed fish. full stop. it’s a horrid thing to do to any fish.
    sorry for the rant, but it makes my blood boil.

    #305508

    ndc
    Participant

    i agree with you on the fact that its not necessary to keep them, i have had 2 rtc , both of them rescued fish, one small who was here to keep my tank cycling while i waited for the fish i wanted to be imported (he arrived in possibly the worst state i have seen a fish in – emaciated, fungal infections, no eyes) but i pulled him around and hes now off somewhere else, but the first one i was given was a 2 foot one, he had always been kept in a 6x2x2 and i had him in a 5x2x2 for about 2 months and during that time he was very well settled, fed well, showed absolutely no sign of stress and interacted with us – he was very active for a rtc and would follow your hand around the tank – this in part is the reason i dont think that size is the be all and end all – he was a very happy fish with an extremely outgoing personality and ideally he would have been in a huge tank but he wasnt showing any ill effects – again a lot of focus is put on size of tank but water quality for me is far more important

    #305509

    ndc
    Participant

    just to add to my last post – after i rehomed him (we had names him red ned!) i saw him in another aquatic shop- not going to say which one – but he was a completely different fish and made me wish i had kept him – even though he was in a larger tank he was in a poorer condition (rtc tend to go a bit yellow when the water quality had been poor) and was not looking in good shape at all- he had been much better off in a smaller tank but being better looked after

    #305511

    keith565
    Participant

    i totally agree with you on the way these fish are kept. however, many people who buy these fish either don’t know their needs or are not bothered. to many if you ask me. i know there are a lot of people who can give them good homes, but probably more who can’t.

    #305512

    keith565
    Participant

    just to add, my friend runs an aquatic and reptile shop and he won’t stock tank busters, but will take them in if they are brought to his shop. he will then only sell them on if the person can show they know their needs, hence he is stuck with several huge fish. but he would rather keep them than let them go to an unsuitable home.

    #305517

    Matt
    Keymaster

    I don’t think you’ll find many on here disagreeing with the issue of gm/dyed fish Keith…despicable practice. You can even buy Osphronemus and some cichlids “to order” in some countries with personal greetings literally written on them in dye…

    As for the issue of “monster” fish….I think my stance is ahem, pretty clear in the finished sections of the knowledge base. /blush.gif” style=”vertical-align:middle” emoid=”:blush:” border=”0″ alt=”blush.gif” />

    #305521

    ndc
    Participant

    this is what i was originally trying to get at, the fact that there is more of a problem with people keeping all fish – regardless of size – in the wrong conditions, having a smaller than necessary tank doesnt have to mean they are kept cruelly , its far worse for any fish to be in a tank that has the water changed every 6 months than a fish thats maybe in a tank thats a bit small but is healthy and cared for.

    #305522

    ndc
    Participant

    missed your monologue matt , can you put it back up!!

    #305523

    keith565
    Participant

    i do agree with you ndc that there are a lot of people who think they are fishkeepers, but are not. but again, tank busters are often sold as cute little fish and they never get looked after the way they should, and i’m sure there are many many times more like that than there are genuine tank buster keepers. this is my main reason for preferring they were not sold.

    #305524

    dunc
    Keymaster

    I can see both sides of the argument but the practice of keeping potentially huge fishes in 4 and 5 feet tanks is just wrong, IMO. I have no problem at all with people keeping large fishes in monster tanks but if it isn’t at LEAST 10 times their body length [so you’re talking 30ft+ for a lot of tankbusters..] then it’s cruel.. again, imo /tongue.gif” style=”vertical-align:middle” emoid=”:p” border=”0″ alt=”tongue.gif” />

    #305526

    Matt
    Keymaster

    I agree that there are as many (probably more) small fish as large being killed as a result of negligence in the hobby, but like Dunc I can’t find a good reason to justify the sale of juvenile Pangasius, Phractocephalus, Osphronemus and clown loach (!) amongst others. When a shop sells a guppy or small fish they can almost guarantee it will be going to a suitably-sized tank, but I’m positive most can’t say the same about bigger species. Once the fish are home obviously welfare on the fishkeeper’s part becomes an issue, but as Dunc said keeping a red-tail and growing it to adult size would require a ridiculous volume of water. Neill I’m absolutely sure that 2′ fish was doing brilliantly in your care, but a 2′ red-tail is not even half adult size. My main issue with keeping these big animals in cramped conditions is that most never reach their full potential in size or age, and for me knowingly stunting an animal’s growth or shortening its lifespan is unacceptable. How many shoals of fully-grown (16″) clown loach has everyone seen recently, compared to how many 1000s of young ones?

    #305527

    ndc
    Participant

    well i must admit im a bit dissapointed, i really thought this would bring some stronger replies, you all just seem so nice !! anyone else have anything to talk about?

    #305528

    dunc
    Keymaster

    With regards the clown loach thing, I’m not sure that the majority of people, including aquatics retailers [though it could be argued that if they don’t realise such a thing, they shouldn’t be selling fish..

    #305529

    Matt
    Keymaster

    Aaargh I wish I hadn’t deleted my post now! Actually not really as it was so long I think it would have been difficult for anyone to reply to /angry.gif” style=”vertical-align:middle” emoid=”:angry:” border=”0″ alt=”angry.gif” />

    Then you have the poor buggers that blindly buy fish without doing their research first. These are invariably the ones who end up with silver sharks/clown loach/common plecs/oscars etc. in their 100l community tanks. Again, I blame the shops for failing to properly educate people as to the real needs of the fish, but also the customer for not reading up on an animal before buying. It all ties in to the seemingly commonplace idea that because its a fish it doesn’t “matter” as much as a poodle or whatever…

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