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How to differentiate between Pangio oblonga and P. pangia?

Home Forums Fresh and Brackish Water Fishes How to differentiate between Pangio oblonga and P. pangia?

This topic contains 0 replies, has 1 voice, and was last updated by  Stefan 5 years, 2 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 17 total)
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  • #302511

    Stefan
    Member

    Today I purchased 11 Pangio not knowing which species it is so I am hoping that someone could give me some advice on the matter. :) I have not yet been able to make a decent photograph.

    #349558

    mikev
    Participant

    P.pangia:

    Dorsal soft rays (total): 10; Anal soft rays: 9; Vertebrae: 47 – 52. Differs from members of the P. kuhlii and P. shelfordii groups and the Myanmar P. signicauda and P. lumbriciformis by having plain brown color pattern. Distinguished from species of the P. anguillaris group and P. signicauda and P. lumbriciformis by possessing fewer abdominal vertebrae (34-39 vs 40-52). Differs from the other members of the P. oblonga group by the following characters: from P. filinaris and P. mariarum by the absence of the nasal barbel (vs presence) and from P. oblonga by a narrower body (7.6-9 times SL vs 7.2-7.7). Can be differentiated from all other Myanmar species by the longer pectoral fins (8.2-9.6 % SL vs 5.3-7.0), and further from P. elongata, P. lumbriciformis and P. signicauda by a deeper body (body depth 13.5-16.3 % SL vs 6.5-9.3) and a deeper (caudal peduncle depth 7.5-9.7 % SL vs 4.1-5.5 % SL) and shorter caudal peduncle (caudal peduncle length 10.5-12.5 % SL vs 14.9-16.6 % SL), from P. fusca and P. apoda by presence of the pelvic girdle and pelvic fins (vs absence), from P.signicauda and P. lumbriciformis by the plain brown coloration (vs with dark marks on body and fins), from P. fusca by the number of abdominal vertebrae (34-39 vs 41-44) and the absence of a nasal barbel (vs presence), and from P. elongata by relatively more posteriorly placed pelvic fins (prepelvic length 79-86.8 % SL vs 56.3 % SL).

    This key is coming from

    Britz, R. and J. Maclaine, 2007. A review of the eel-loaches, genus Pangio, from Myanmar (Teleostei: Cypriniformes: Cobitidae). Ichthyol. Explor. Freshwat. 18(1):17-30.

    via fishbase.

    hth

    #349562

    Stefan
    Member

    Thanks Mike! I was hoping there would be something easier to distinguish the two on appearance. It seems is the only way is by body depth.

    #349563

    t-hak
    Member

    I believe P. pangia caudal is slightly rounded and P. oblonga has truncate or slightly forked

    #349575

    mikev
    Participant

    @stefan said:

    Thanks Mike! I was hoping there would be something easier to distinguish the two on appearance. It seems is the only way is by body depth.

    Two things you can do: (1) read the paper, perhaps there are some more hints there (2) check the origin of the fish against known distribution of p.pangia and p.oblonga, perhaps your fish comes from a country that only has records of one species.

    #349577

    Stefan
    Member

    “I believe P. pangia caudal is slightly rounded and P. oblonga has truncate or slightly forked”

     

    That might help a lot. Do you have a source for that information?

     

    Mike, good idea. Will do!

    #349578

    t-hak
    Member

    Stefan said 

    “I believe P. pangia caudal is slightly rounded and P. oblonga has truncate or slightly forked”

     

    That might help a lot. Do you have a source for that information?

     

    P. pangia
    Hamilton, 1822 : The caudal fin is small and rounded (p.355)
    M´Clelland, 1839 : The fins are round and small (p.435), drawing confirms this (fig.5 plate LI)
    Cuvier and Valenciennes, 1846 : La caudale est arrondie – The caudal is rounded (p.76)
    Blyth, 1860 : This has small fins and a round tail ; but certain Indonesian species affined to it have a forked tail (p.169)
    Day, 1889 : Drawing (fig.81 on page 222)

    P. oblonga
    Bleeker, 1862 (on 2012 translation) : caudal fin expanded, truncate or hardly emarginate (p.84), drawing comfirms this (p.83)

    …have to go to work now – i’ll find more refs if you need to ;)

    Many pictures on web shows P. oblonga, alltough it says P. pangia.

    And not to make things too simple, i remember it’s said that there’s probably more than one species in the group defined as P. oblonga.

     

    #349579

    Stefan
    Member

    Thanks a million!! This is more than enough. So as the taxa currently stand I can understand it as oblonga with a forked caudal and pangia with a rounded one?

    #349580

    t-hak
    Member

    @stefan said:
    Thanks a million!! This is more than enough. So as the taxa currently stand I can understand it as oblonga with a forked caudal and pangia with a rounded one?

    To be exact, as defined by above  (cause my english is not the best):

    P. pangia caudal fin is rounded

    P. oblonga caudal fin is truncate or hardly emarginate

    #349581

    Stefan
    Member

    @t-hak said:

    To be exact, as defined by above  (cause my english is not the best):

    P. pangia caudal fin is rounded

    P. oblonga caudal fin is truncate or hardly emarginate

     

     

    Well mine are definitely Pangio oblonga – that is, until the taxon is revised ;) Truncate to slightly forked caudal fin.

    #349591

    Thomas
    Member

    Great info, Thanks! I have some brown Pangio with rounded caudal fin but they have bars on the head. So neither P. oblonga nor P. pangia.

    So it looks (the caudal):
    pang_cauda.jpg

     

     

     

     

    #349592

    Matt
    Keymaster

    Agreed, great info in this thread. Is this sp. PAN04 Thomas?

    #349594

    Stefan
    Member

    Thomas, would you have a full lateral shot?

    #349602

    t-hak
    Member

    @matt said:
    Agreed, great info in this thread. Is this sp. PAN04 Thomas?

    Sorry for taking this topic to sideways, but to my eyes PAN04 lighter and darker forms isn’t the same species.

    I think i can see nasal barbels on the lighter form and only tubes on the darker form. Pigment (small dark dots) are more clearly divided from the lateral line on the lighter form (excluding last caudal part). Also the darker form has heavily pigmented pectoral fins, but on the lighter form the fins are very clear.

    #349603

    Matt
    Keymaster

    Agree it’s possible they are different, it says as much in the profile.

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