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Interesting Hybrid Rays Born Today

Home Forums Fresh and Brackish Water Fishes Interesting Hybrid Rays Born Today

This topic contains 16 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  Nomad 7 years, 6 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 17 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #300848

    Sojapat
    Member

    Had a batch of pups today from a male P.henlei x female P.sp Mantilla
    Should be nice to see what they grow out into .

    #318886

    Mark Duffill
    Participant

    Congrats Neil, lovely lookers

    #318890

    Matt
    Keymaster

    Interesting patterns.

    #318897

    Nomad
    Participant

    I hope those pups are mules.

    I, personally, am against any and all hybrids. The last thing we need is bloodlines being polluted and more abominations like the Flowerhorn Cichlid. Any hybrids in my old breeding room went in the garbage disposal (2 big oscars…)

    #318900

    Sojapat
    Member

    Hi Nomad I will kill them right now

    #318901

    Bully
    Participant

    Was this an intentional cross?

    #318902

    Nomad
    Participant

    QUOTE (Sojapat @ Sep 19 2010, 09:06 AM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
    Hi Nomad I will kill them right now

    Yeah, whatever. No need for sarcasm.

    Crossing captive strains is irresponsible in the extreme. Sorry I cannot be enthusiastic or excited for you. Believe me, if they were pure bred, I would be jumping for joy for you.

    Be responsible in your disposal of these aborations. Please.

    #318906

    Hokum
    Participant

    QUOTE (Nomad @ Sep 20 2010, 06:14 AM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
    Yeah, whatever. No need for sarcasm.

    Crossing captive strains is irresponsible in the extreme. Sorry I cannot be enthusiastic or excited for you. Believe me, if they were pure bred, I would be jumping for joy for you.

    Be responsible in your disposal of these aborations. Please.

    I guess your not a goldfish fan then…

    TBH I don’t like hybrids which effect the animals way of life like the flowerhorns and many of the “fancy” goldfish, but I wouldn’t tell people to kill them… its like telling people to kill mongrels

    #318907

    Sojapat
    Member

    Well I challenge ANYONE on this forum to honestly say they never owned a hybrid fish?
    They are ornamental fish for enjoyment !
    These fish will never go anywhere near the wild and they chose each other to breed with.
    I understand some of your points,these fishes will be a lower price than the pure strains which may help introduce newcomers to the hobby .
    I do breed pure strain fish also .
    Oh and by the way Nomad, I can be sarcastic it nicer than a murderer…
    What are your feelings on mixed race children .. are these aborations too?
    Food for thought ?
    We are all related if you go far enough back ..so to are potamotrygon…
    Check out how the Amazon river evolved …
    Enjoy your fishes .

    #318913

    Eyrie
    Participant

    My own view is that deliberately crossing species is something to be avoided, although I would not go as far as to cull the offspring. And whilst they are ornamental fish, we still have responsibilities even although we keep them for our enjoyment.

    Comments about mixed race children are an inaccurate comparison since they are still Homo sapiens rather than a cross with another species (eg Homo erectus). So let’s end that comparison please before tempers flare.

    As regards being related to rays, I’d have to trace my family tree back 500 million years or so

    #318915

    Bully
    Participant

    QUOTE (Sojapat @ Sep 20 2010, 08:06 PM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
    Well I challenge ANYONE on this forum to honestly say they never owned a hybrid fish?

    Well, I would imagine that there are lot of people that have never kept a hybrid fish. Granted that line-bred fish are part and parcel of the hobby, but not so much with hybrids. With the exception of a Betta splendens (questionable heritage these days I believe) I have not knowingly kept a hybrid fish. It’s also one of the reasons I’m a fan of wild-caught fish over cultured species.

    Personally, I will never see the point in hybrids and it’s just that, a personal choice. Naturally, as a retailer you come from a different perspective

    #318917

    Matt
    Keymaster

    QUOTE (Bully @ Sep 21 2010, 06:44 PM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
    Naturally, as a retailer you come from a different perspective /thumbs_up.gif” style=”vertical-align:middle” emoid=”:thumbsup:” border=”0″ alt=”thumbs_up.gif” /> Not a massive fan of hybrids either but kept my fair share of platies, swordtails, etc. in the past. Moral aspect aside my main issue with having them in the hobby is when you’re unsure if you’re buying a genuine species or not as with many Synodontis, Melanotaenia, Rift Lake cichlids, etc. these days.

    This is absolutely NOT the case in sojapat’s shop, by the way, which counts among the very best around.

    #318918

    Nomad
    Participant

    Sojapat, I did not mean to cause offence. I have kept many fish over the past 30 years and have a deep and abiding hatered of hybrids and have never allowed one to exist on my tanks. The reasons for this are many. Not least, I like to know what I am getting.

    Congratulations on the spawn, that is obviously what you want to hear.

    As far as being ornamental fish for enjoyment only, you are far off the mark. Many of these fish, including the rays, are up against the wall. They have a chance of survival, us. If in 20 years there are none left in the wild and the only ones in captivity are the skanky hybridised mongrels, it’ll be pretty upsetting. If people like yourself didn’t waste their time and talents on mongrels and put that effort into pure strains, it would benefit the whole industry and the ecological preservation effort.

    If we had ignored this and just mixed the various Melnatonia eachamensus strains, which we identified down to locality and kept the strains seperate, we might have lost completely some important strains of this beautiful little Aussie. A dedicated group of ANGFA and other aquarium society members worked hard swapping these fish all over the country to preserve it. It remains the same for all species. Less crossing, more scientific approach.

    Especially from someone of your obvious talent and skill.

    #318927

    Sojapat
    Member

    Hi Nomad , Points taken /blush.gif” style=”vertical-align:middle” emoid=”:blush:” border=”0″ alt=”blush.gif” />
    It interesting if you follow the breeding of these fishes they appear so different from the wild fishes (pure strains) even at F1 !
    Wether its the food or water or a combination of the 2 tank bred outshine the wild fishes If you are interested have a look around at a couple of varieties P14 at F2 is nothing like a wild fish and sp Pearls which are my little thing .

    #318929

    MatsP
    Participant

    I spoke to Neil (Sojapat) when I was visiting up in Wigan on Saturday, on my way to the Catfish Study Group auction on Sunday.

    Whilst I’m not a fan of hybrids either, and I agree with the analysis that humans may well be different from various regions, they are still the same species, where the rays are definitely not.

    The only possible hybrid that I own is my Ancistrus of the common variety. We don’t KNOW if these are hybrids or not – it is possible, but not certain.


    Mats

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