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My 75L and stocking advice

Home Forums My Aquarium My 75L and stocking advice

This topic contains 0 replies, has 1 voice, and was last updated by  LouisDS 4 years, 6 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 17 total)
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  • #302944

    LouisDS
    Participant

    Hi all,

     

    New to the forum but looooooove the website. New to the hobby.

     

    I have been having my first 75L (60 x 30 x 40) for 6 weeks now. Went through all imaginable beginner’s mistakes, including adding fish after 4 days and trying to save my fish while the tank was cycling.

     

    But now my tank has been cycled and stable for about 10 days. At this moment, I have 7 Serpae Tetras (I was told it is not the best choice for my tank but How could I know people at Petco are not advisable reference ;) ).

     

    I am looking to add a second species that would complete my south american population. My plan is to slowly add plants and wood, maybe change my bottom gravel at some point for sand, but at a slow pace, over 1 year or even more. After doing extensive research on seriouslyfish and others, I come here with 5 species that are fairly available where I am (Maryland USA) and that I thing would do well in my tank. Any advice on which of these species I should avoid or favor and why, is greatly appreciated.

     

    I used Aqadvisor to determine the number of fish I can get, I tried to stay in the 80% stocking level range. Hare they are:

     

    1- Corydoras Pygmaeus. Available at my local fish store (no more Petco). I think they are simply awesome. 10-12 individuals.

     

    2- Corydoras Panda. Also available. Nice calm species and not too big. 6-8

     

    3- Nannostomus Marginatus. Not sure if available or not but I feel they would do well in my tank, surface level is unoccupied, the serpaes are lower middle/bottom dwellers. 8-10

     

    4- Corydoras Julii. Available. Did not strike me when I was at the store, but nice fish. 6-7

     

    5- Nanostommus beckfordi. Very nice fish but bigger. I don’t think I can have more than 6.

     

    Finally, I briefly considered hatchetfish and Cory Aeneus but I think my tank is too small. Also thought about only putting a couple of apisto cacatuoides or borrelli or M. ramirezi but I fear these cichlids will be too sensitive for the beginner that I am.

     

    Thanks in advance for your opinions,

     

    Louis

     

    #351829

    Rüdiger
    Participant

    Hi Louis,

    welcome to the world of fish keeping and of course to SF. :-D

    Your plan of action sounds quite ok and as a first step, I’d advise to go for some plants, sooner rather than later. You don’t have to get fancy and difficult species, but rather some inexpensive “run of the mill” stuff to start out with. They will A. help you in keeping your water parameters stable and B. provide some cover, which your current and future fish will appreciate.

     

    As for H. Eques: In my eyperience, their infamous aggressive behaviour is mostly intraspecific and after that directed at species, which claim the same part of the water column as they do.

     

    Your choice of fish species isn’t too shabby either. ;-)

    As you are just starting out in the hobby, I’d suggest positions 1 and 3. They are just beautiful fishes and, despite their diminutive size, quite robust. I.e. they’ll forgive most of the inevitable “beginner’s mistakes” including the odd “forgotten” water change!

    The numbers you mention are ok too and and, including the 7 existing H. eques, you could even think about a few specimens of a small Otocinclus spp.

    If you get a chance, PHOTOS are always appreciated here on SF! :-D

    Regards

    R.

    #351832

    LouisDS
    Participant

    Thank you very much for that. I really appreciate your vision. I was on a different forum where according to some purists, if you don’t have 200L, all you can have is 2 shrimps and a snail… they are nice but you know….

     

    I will show pictures when I have a more natural set up. Now I got plastic plants from a friend to provide cover but I am looking forward to make it more like a real habitat.

     

    My best,

     

    Louis

     

    #351852

    KittyKat
    Participant

    I would have to agree with Rüdiger on all counts. I wish you luck in finding the fish! While both C. pygmaeus and N. marginatus were staples at the better LFS when I lived in Germany, they’re nigh on impossible to find where I am now in UK…

    #351853

    LouisDS
    Participant

    Thank you,

     

    I know that C. pygmaeus is readily available in my LFS. N. Marginatus not so sure. I might go tomorrow so I’ll keep you posted.

    #351891

    Jakub
    Participant

    Hi Louis

    So how are your tetras getting on at the moment? I briefly considered them when setting up a tank last year but was deterred by the aggression factor and quite substantial space requirements (for such a small fish that is). Do you not find some males are forced to live in hiding due to constant chasing? Unless you are very creative with decor to break the line of sight multiple times (and in 60×30 base tank it’s not easy – I know this problem first hand…), you may have a problem if what they say about the species is true.

    Regards

    Jakub

    #351907

    LouisDS
    Participant

    Hi Jakub,

     

    My tetras are doing fine in terms of health, appetite, color.

     

    However, I do experiment the issues you are mentioning. First, aggression between males has stabilized over the last couple of weeks but I still find a fish with a broken caudal fin from time to time. The interesting part is they “parade” a lot, trying to impress each other by displaying very black fins and kind of “dancing”, exposing their flanks to their congeners. Sometimes, one fish hides from the rest of the group, but I don’t think it is always the same, so it does not bother me. I really like them, they are  playful and beautiful, but to be honest, I am not sure I would make the same choice, knowing what I know now, (I just think they would need more space to flee when they are chased by another fish). I entirely relied on the employee of a big animal store to buy them.

     

    I hope this helps. 

     

    Louis

     

    #351908

    Jakub
    Participant

    The ‘parading’ you are referring to is healthy behaviour I think (and certainly entertaining to watch). My H. rosaceus do this too, although they are supposed to be much more peaceful than H. eques. Interestingly I also had split fins in the first weeks, and non-dominant males tend to spend some time in secluded spots, while the dominant one controls the middle of the tank.

    I made myself a promise to buy a bigger tank and a bigger group next time I decide to keep shoaling fish. I know the recommendation made in the SF profile and in other sources out there for similar fish is to keep at least 6 (some websites / publications even say 4), but I suspect a group of 15 would be much better both for the fish and our experience as fish keepers.

    At the moment I have 8 H. rosaceus: 3 males and 5 females, what is the sex ratio in yours?

    It’s nice to have a bit of variety in an aquarium, but I now think that considerable volume is required to really make it work with several species in one tank. My plan for the next (bigger) tank is to go with as little as two species and keep good numbers so that the community is a bit more natural and balanced with any aggression spread among the members of the group.

    It would be interesting to do an opinion poll on the forum to see what people think is the sensible minimum number of fish for some popular genera.

    #351909

    LouisDS
    Participant

    One thing that I know, is that their color and behaviour was radically different when there were only 4 in the tank compared to 7 now. When I lost 2 because (from 6 to 4) of high ammonia, they suddenly lost al their colors and there was no shoal or school whatsoever. This slowly came back when I added 4 more in the tank and remained the same when I lost one because I was still trying to cycle my tank at that time. I have now had the same 7 fish for about 6 weeks.

     

    I think I have 3 males and 4 females. Not an expert, but I assume those who are fighting are males, slimmers but larger fins.

     

    So for H. Eques in a 75L, I can say 4 is not enough, and 7 or 8 is much better. 

    #351915

    Matt
    Keymaster

    @Jakub said:
    I know the recommendation made in the SF profile and in other sources out there for similar fish is to keep at least 6 (some websites / publications even say 4), but I suspect a group of 15 would be much better both for the fish and our experience as fish keepers. 

    Totally agree with this and the H. eques profile, which was recently updated, recommends 8-10 minimum purchase. As I work through the other tetras I’ll do the same where applicable.

    @l_auf the poll is a nice idea but might not work at the generic level. For example H. eques and H. rosaceus belong to a group of closely-related species within Hyphessobrycon that has been referred to as the ‘rosy tetra clade’ of which members all display similar behaviour including the sparring between rival males that you guys are seeing. The bleeding heart tetras are also in this group and can be quite aggressive as well whereas many other Hyphessobrycon are much more peaceful.

     

     

    #351921

    Rüdiger
    Participant

    Hi guys,

    my personal opinion is, for any tetra, never less than 10 specimens and when it comes to 35 to 40 mm SL never less than 100 x 30 cm footprint.

    Regards

    R.

    #351928

    Jakub
    Participant

    @matt said:
    (…)

    @l_auf the poll is a nice idea but might not work at the generic level. For example H. eques and H. rosaceus belong to a group of closely-related species within Hyphessobrycon that has been referred to as the ‘rosy tetra clade’ of which members all display similar behaviour including the sparring between rival males that you guys are seeing. The bleeding heart tetras are also in this group and can be quite aggressive as well whereas many other Hyphessobrycon are much more peaceful.

     

     

    Hi Matt

    Yeah, point taken – I guess generalization always leads to inconclusive findings, but are you saying that in the case of more aggressive species it is important to keep greater numbers while the peaceful ones are fine in small groups (as in: only several fish)? My thinking was more along the lines of “6 fish do not make a shoal, will 15 do?”, regardless of intraspecific aggression factor.

    #351940

    Matt
    Keymaster

    Hm, maybe we should up the recommended numbers in the tetra profiles and do it now before too many more get written. Shall we say minimum 10-12?

    #351949

    Jakub
    Participant

    Don’t really have expertise or experience to tell where to draw the line exactly, but something is not quite ‘right’ with these small groups, which is why I want to try and experiment with bigger ones in future. One thing to keep in mind is that when there are 6-8 fish, there will only probably be 3-4 males – and in such scenario there is every chance that one will establish unquestionable long term dominance. Not so great for the group, I pretty much have that situation now with 8 fish (3 males). The tank has got enough hiding spots so that none of the fish are in real distress, but the dominant male can be a bit of a nuisance at times, and I never see the other two really comfortable in the open, with fins extended.

    While this is not ideal, it still must be better to have 6-8 than, say, three (I once saw a tank with three – the fish looked washed out and miserable). Sounds like Louis observed a radical change in behaviour and appearance when he went from 4 fish to 7.

    #351958

    Matt
    Keymaster

    Good points and yeah don’t think there is a definitive answer really, all we can do is offer suggestions based on our collective experience which is one reason why threads such as this can be so valuable.

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