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Nemachilichthys Spp.

Home Forums Fresh and Brackish Water Fishes Nemachilichthys Spp.

This topic contains 13 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  Matt 7 years, 2 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 17 total)
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  • #300910

    Matt
    Keymaster

    I’ve been pondering this for the last day or two having read a few references plus forum threads elsewhere and am now leaning towards the fish in the hobby being N. shimogensis. One of the main reasons I think so is that Andrew Rao is certain that all those sold in the trade are collected from the Thunga and Bhadra rivers near Shimoga, Karnataka – the former of which is the type locality of the species.

    Meanwhile N. rueppelli was described from close to Pune, well over 500 km north of Shimoga in Maharashtra state. In its description Sykes states that the body colour is “greenish yellow” and “the lateral line marked with short dark bars”.

    In the N. shimogensis description Narayan Rao gives the colour and patterning as “orange with brown bars, continuing dorsally and descending to the ventral margin of the body. A few shorter intermediate bars also present” and “head in freshly collected specimens is brownish or reddish”.

    Now, here’s Syke’s Cobitis ruppelli:

    Narayan Rao’s N. shimogensis:

    …and a couple of Mark’s adult specimens:

    Any opinions much appreciated!

    Attached files

    #319394

    Mark Duffill
    Participant

    I think the conclusion that was reached at the time of these coming in was that these fish that myself and Mick got were N. shimogensis

    #319396

    Plaamoo
    Participant

    That’s a new one to me, Beautiful!

    #319397

    Matt
    Keymaster

    Cute huh Jim? /thumbs_up.gif” style=”vertical-align:middle” emoid=”:thumbsup:” border=”0″ alt=”thumbs_up.gif” /> Even attempted to rouse His Darkness I was so confused. *shakes head* Have some pics from Mick that will be added to the profile with yours. Have you heard from the b*gger recently?

    #319398

    Plaamoo
    Participant

    ^I think he’s in farmville

    #319404

    Mark Duffill
    Participant

    I think he is to busy farming and playing mahjong on Facebook /sad.gif” style=”vertical-align:middle” emoid=”:(” border=”0″ alt=”sad.gif” />

    #319410

    The.Dark.One
    Member

    Hi

    The reason I suggested using the name was because their locality and physical appearance are identical to that of shimogensis. I’m aware that Menon synonymised it with rueppelli but based on the locality and slight difference in colour and pattern I wasn’t convinced the synonymy was correct. However this is just a hunch. Menon did examine specimens from the Mula Mutha River. It may well be that the slight differences in pattern and colour were just down to preservation, or it may be that Menon has overlooked differences that may be relevant at species or subspecies level. The fish of southern India are very poorly known.

    So, really it is up to you whether to follow Menon who has seen specimens from both areas, or Banarescu & Nalbant (who I don’t think did).

    Just a quick check Matt – How many dorsal rays are listed in the the two descriptions?

    #319413

    Matt
    Keymaster

    Sykes gives 13 for C. rupelli, Narayan Rao 14 (2/12) for N. shimogensis. Banarescu and Nalbant state 10-11 branched dorsal rays is diagnostic for both species and that they’re endemic to the Kistna (sic – I guess they mean Krishna) river system. That last point makes me less inclined to trust them…

    Does Death require any of these papers?

    By the way you’re twistin’ me Menon, man. Really need to find a copy. dry.gif

    #319452

    The.Dark.One
    Member

    QUOTE (Matt @ Nov 2 2010, 11:23 PM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
    Sykes gives 13 for C. rupelli, Narayan Rao 14 (2/12) for N. shimogensis. Banarescu and Nalbant state 10-11 branched dorsal rays is diagnostic for both species and that they’re endemic to the Kishna (sic – I guess they mean Krishna) river system. That last point makes me less inclined to trust them…

    Does Death require any of these papers?

    By the way you’re twistin’ me Menon, man. Really need to find a copy. dry.gif

    Hi Matt.
    OK. I don’t think that is significant then. I have got both papers but they are in a huge pile!
    Just remind me please if B&N gave any differences and if so what.

    Sorry about that! That’s why I like to buy things as they come out cos if I can’t get a copy later I get really pissed off. Current list if books (mu ha ha ha):

    A Coloured atlas of some Invertebrates from Ceylon – Vol 1 – Fishes
    A Complete Guide to the Freshwater Fishes of Southern Africa
    A Field Guide to Freshwater Fishes – North America North of Mexico
    A Field Guide to the Fishes of Tasek Bera, Malaysia
    A GUIDE TO THE FRESHWATER FISHES OF SINGAPORE
    A HANDBOOK OF ORNAMENTAL FISHES OF THE BRAHMAPUTRA BASIN
    A Photographic Guide to the Inland-water Fishes of Taiwan – Vol. 1 Cypriniformes
    A taxonomic Revision of the fishes of the genus Mystus
    An account of the fishes found in the river Ganges and its branches
    Aqualog – all Corydoras
    Aqualog – all Labyrinths
    Aqualog – Loricariidae all L – Numbers
    Aqualog – The latest L Numbers
    Aqualog Photo Collection – African Catfish
    AQUARIEN ATLAS – 6
    AQUARIEN ATLAS – Foto Index 1-5
    AQUARIUM ATLAS – 1
    AQUARIUM ATLAS – 2
    AQUARIUM ATLAS – 3
    Atlas des Poissons Deau Douce de GUYANE Tome I
    Atlas des Poissons Deau Douce de GUYANE Tome II Fasc I & II
    Atlas Ichthyologique Band II (Siluriformes)
    Atlas Ichthyologique Band III (Cypriniformes)
    Atlas of Freshwater and Marine Catfishes
    Atlas of Freshwater Fishes of Russia Vols 1&2
    Atlas of Killifishes of the Old World
    Atlas of LIVEBEARERS
    ATLAS OF NORTH AMERICAN FRESHWATER FISHES
    Atlas of North American Freshwater Fishes, Supplement
    Atlas of Southern African Freshwater Fishes
    Back to Nature Guide to Catfishes
    Bede Atlas Freshwater Aquarium Fishes
    Biodiversity Documentation for Kerala: Freshwater Fishes
    Bloch Atlas Vol 1-3
    Breeding Corydoradine Catfishes
    Catalogue of the Freshwater Fishes of Africa in the British Museum Volumes I-IV
    Catfish and Loaches-The Bottom Dwellers
    Catfish Atlas 1
    Catfishes of India
    Catfishes of the World – Vol 2 + supps.
    Catfishes of the World – Vol 3 + supps.
    Catfishes of the World – Vol 4 + supps.
    Catfishes of the World – Vol 5 + supps.
    Catfishes of the World – Vol. 1+ supps.
    Catfishes Vols 1 & 2
    CHARACOIDS OF THE WORLD
    CICHLIDS and all other fishes of Lake Malawi
    CICHLIDS and all other fishes of Lake Tanganyika
    COLOURED ILLUSTRATIONS OF FRESHWATER FISHES OF KOREA
    Coloured Lexicon of Cichlids – 2nd edition
    COMMON FRESHWATER FISHES OF EAST AFRICA
    CORYDORAS CATFISH
    Corydoras-The most popular armoured catfishes of South America
    Die Faszinerende Welt der CORYDORAS (looseleaf)
    Die Susswasserfische Birmas – Die familie Cobitidae
    Economic Fauna of China: Fresh Water Fishes
    Encyclopedia of Flora nd Fauna of Bangladesh – Freshwater Fishes
    Endemic Freshwater Fishes of India
    European Inland Water Fish
    exotic tropical fishes – looseleaf + supplements
    Fauna des poissons d’eaux douces de la reserve de la biosphere de Dimonika (Mayombe, Congo)
    Fauna of British India inc. Ceylon and Burma – FISHES Vol I & II
    Fauna of India Pisces Cobitidae
    Fauna of India Pisces Homalopteridae
    Fauna of Meghalaya – Part I Vertebrates
    Fauna Sinica Pisces Cypriniformes II
    Fauna Sinica Pisces Cypriniformes III
    Fauna Sinica Pisces – Perciformes V – Gobioidei
    Fauna Sinica Pisces Siluridae
    Faune des poissons d’eaux douces et saumâtres de l’Afrique de l’Ouest Vol 1
    Faune des poissons d’eaux douces et saumâtres de l’Afrique de l’Ouest Vol 2
    Field Guide to the Fishes of the Mekong Delta
    Field Guide to the Freshwater Fishes of AUSTRALIA
    FIELD GUIDE TO THE FRESHWATER FISHES OF NEW GUINEA
    Field Guide to the Freshwater Fishes of Tanzania
    Fish and Fisheries of North Eastern India (Arunachal Pradesh)
    FISH OF BRITAIN & EUROPE
    Fishes and Fish Resources in Xizang, China
    Fishes of Alabama
    Fishes Of Brazil – Translated version
    Fishes of freshwater and estuary, Taiwan
    Fishes of Henan
    Fishes of Hubei
    Fishes of Hunan
    FISHES OF JAPAN IN COLOUR
    Fishes of Lake Kariba, Africa
    FISHES OF LAOS
    Fishes of Mongolia (Internet print)
    Fishes of North East India
    Fishes of North East India – a field guide to species identification
    Fishes of Shandong
    Fishes of Thailand
    FISHES OF THE CAMBODIAN MEKONG
    Fishes of the Qinling Mountains
    Fishes of the Rio das Mortes. Identification and Ecology
    Fishes of the River Cai
    Fishes of the World
    FISHES OF U.P. & BIHAR
    Fishes, Fishing implements and methods of Nepal
    FOSSIL ATLAS – Fishes
    FRESHWATER FISHES OF AUSTRALIA
    Freshwater Fishes of Bangladesh
    Freshwater Fishes of Bangladesh – 2nd edition
    FRESHWATER FISHES OF CALIFORNIA
    Freshwater Fishes of Canada
    Freshwater Fishes of Costa Rica
    Freshwater Fishes of Ghana
    Freshwater Fishes of Guangxi Province
    Freshwater Fishes of Guangxi, China (Second Edition)
    Freshwater Fishes of Japan
    Freshwater Fishes of Korea
    Freshwater Fishes of Mata Atlantica
    Freshwater fishes of Natal
    Freshwater Fishes of Northern Vietnam (Internet print)
    Freshwater Fishes of Peninsular India
    Freshwater Fishes of Peninsular Malaysia
    FRESHWATER FISHES OF SOUTHERN AFRICA
    Freshwater Fishes of Sri Lanka
    Freshwater Fishes of the USSR and adjacent countries – Vol. 1
    Freshwater Fishes of the USSR and adjacent countries – Vol. 2
    Freshwater Fishes of the USSR and adjacent countries – Vol. 3
    freshwater fishes of the world Vol 1 & 2 (black hardback boxed set)
    FRESHWATER FISHES OF WESTERN INDONESIA AND SULAWESI
    Hamlyn Guide to Aquarium Fishes
    Handbook of Darters
    Handbook of European Freshwater Fishes
    Himalyan Fishes and Fisheries
    Histoire Naturelle des Poissons Volumes 1-22
    Ichthyology of Nepal – A Study of Fishes of the Himalayan Waters
    Identification of Freshwater Fishes of North Vietnam (photocopy)
    Identification of the Freshwater Fishes of South Vietnam
    Identifying Corydoradine catfishes
    Illustrated Fauna and Flora of Korea – Freshwater Fishes
    Indochinese Nemacheilines
    Inland Fishes of India and adjacent Countries Vols 1 & 2
    Inland Fishes of Myanmar
    L-Catfishes
    Los Peces del Rio Magdalena
    Los Peces Argentinos de Agua Dulce
    MARINE ATLAS
    Naturalists Guide to Aquarium Fish
    ORNAMENTAL AQUARIUM FISH OF INDIA
    Ornamental Fishes of North East India – An Atlas
    Ornamental Fishes of the Western Ghats of India
    Peces de los Andes de Colombia
    Peces del Catatumbo
    Peces del Ibera
    Peces del medio Amazonas – Region de Leticia
    Peces Ornamentales de Venezuela
    Peixes da planície de inundação do alto rio Paraná e áreas adjacentes
    Peixes do alto Rio Jurua (Amazonas, Brasil)
    Peixes do Mearim. Fishes of the Mearim River
    Peixes do Pantanal
    Philip’s Guide to Freshwater Fish of Britain and
    Europe
    Poissons d’eaux douces et saumatres de l’Afrique de l’Ouest Tomes I&II
    RAINBOWFISHES OF Australia and Papua New Guinea
    rasbora
    Rasboras
    Revision des Synodontis Africains
    sharks and loaches
    Subterranean Fishes of the World
    SYNOPSIS OF FRESHWATER FISHES OF CHINA
    The American Darters
    The Borneo Suckers
    The Catfishes of Africa – A handbook for identification and maintenance
    The Cyprinid Fishes of China Vols 1 & 2 (unofficial reprint)
    The Fish Fauna of Assam and the Neighbouring North-Eastern States of India
    The fishes of Fujian Province Volumes 1 & 2
    The Fishes of India Volumes I & II
    The Fishes of Lake Rukwa Drainage
    The Fishes of Malabar
    The Fishes of the Hengduan Mountains Region
    The Fishes of the Indo-Australian Archipelago – Volume II
    The Fishes of the Indo-Australian Archipelago – Volumes I-XI
    The Fishes of the Qinghai-Xizang Plateau
    The Fishes of Xinjiang Province
    The Fishes of Yunnan, China – Part 1
    The Fishes of Yunnan, China – Part 2
    The Fresh and Brackish Water Fishes of Lower Guinea – West Central Africa Volumes 1 & 2
    The freshwater and estuaries fishes of Hainan Island
    The Fresh-water Fishes of British Columbia
    The Freshwater Fishes of Central Vietnam
    The Freshwater Fishes of China in Coloured Illustrations Volume 1
    The Freshwater Fishes of China in Coloured Illustrations Volume 2
    The Freshwater Fishes of China in Coloured Illustrations Volume 3
    The Freshwater Fishes of Europe Vol 1 Part I
    The Freshwater Fishes of Europe Vol 1 Part II
    The Freshwater Fishes of Europe Vol 2
    The Freshwater Fishes of Europe Vol 5 Part I
    The Freshwater Fishes of Europe Vol 5 Part II
    The Freshwater Fishes of Europe Vol 5 Part III
    The Freshwater Fishes of Europe Vol 8 Part I
    The Freshwater Fishes of Europe Vol 8 Part II
    The Freshwater Fishes of Europe Vol 9
    THE FRESHWATER FISHES OF INDIA,PAKISTAN,BANGLADESH,BURMA AND SRI LANKA-A HANDBOOK
    The freshwater fishes of Java, as observed by Kuhl and van Hasselt in 1820-23
    The Freshwater Fishes of Kruger national Park
    The Freshwater Fishes of Mexico
    THE FRESHWATER FISHES OF NORTH BORNEO
    THE FRESHWATER FISHES OF SIAM OR THAILAND
    The Freshwater Fishes of Thailand
    The Freshwater Fishes of the Indian Region
    The Freshwater Fishes of Vietnam Volume I
    The Freshwater Fishes of Vietnam Volume II
    The Freshwater Fishes of Vietnam Volume III
    THE FRESHWATER FISHES OF WESTERN BORNEO (KALIMANTAN BARAT, INDONESIA)
    The Marine and Freshwater Fishes of Ceylon
    The Reed Field Guide to New Zealand Freshwater Fishes
    THE WORLD OF CATFISHES
    The Fishes of Sichuan
    Freshwater Fishes of Central India – A Field Guide
    Freshwater Fishes of Iraq
    Handbuch der Welskunde
    The Freshwater Fishes of the Indian Region 2nd Edition
    Wels Atlas 2

    #319453

    Matt
    Keymaster

    Hoping you didn’t just type all that out although the evil laugh was appropriate. Nice library. dry.gif

    B & N give no differences whatsoever other than geography with their N. ruppelli occurring in the upper Krishna and N. shimogensis apparently endemic to the Thunga which we already know is wrong! I think…

    #319485

    The.Dark.One
    Member

    QUOTE (Matt @ Nov 4 2010, 10:06 PM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
    P.S. – any opinions on the genus name?

    In what sense?

    #319488

    Matt
    Keymaster

    In the sense that it’s listed as Nemacheilus elsewhere.

    #320369

    retro_gk
    Participant

    shimogensis is considered valid around these parts, as Nemacheilichthys. I was recently shown a rueppeli from around Pune and it does not look like it has ever been in the hobby.

    #320371

    Matt
    Keymaster

    Hey Rahul long time no speak!

    #340794

    Matt
    Keymaster

    Juvenile of the same species?

    Attached files

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