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Poorly Rainbowfish

Home Forums Fresh and Brackish Water Fishes Poorly Rainbowfish

This topic contains 0 replies, has 1 voice, and was last updated by  mikev 6 years, 1 month ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 17 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #301788

    psbresner
    Participant

    Hi Guys,

    I have a Bosemans Rainbow fish that is looking rather sorry for itself. It appears to have scales missing with red/pink patches. I have tried treating with melafix/pimafix and more recently esha2000. Nothing seems to be working.

    Water parameters are fine, ph was a bit low for them last month but that has now been rectified.

    I have been advised that it may be mycobacteriosis!

    Can anyone give advice about this?

    Thanks

    Paul

    #345670

    Jaguar
    Participant

    The only real way and to be certain it is mycobacteriosis (Fish TB) is to take a swab from the fish and to get it tested by a vet, but this can be expensive. A good sign of Fish TB is a curvature of the spine but not all fish show this symptom, is there any noticeable sign of a spinal deformity?

    Do you have a photograph of the fish in question. Pictures make diagnosis a lot easier.

    #345675

    psbresner
    Participant

    Some pics as you requested, not very clear sorry.

    Thanks

    Paul

    #345676

    Jarcave
    Participant

    I can’t see the pics as I’m at work and I only see a little red x.

    #345677

    Matt
    Keymaster

    If you can answer some or all of the questions posed here we’ll probably be more easily-able to help you.

    #345678

    Jarcave
    Participant

    IF it is Mycobacteriosis and it may not be….

    I should have added, you really will need a fish vet to diagnose correctly. There are no ‘off the shelf treatments’. There is a bit of usefull info below :-

    http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/Mycobacteriosis

    Find a fish vet local to you and call them for advice. But again, get it quarantined or even euthanised if it appears in an advanced stage and appears to be stressed. It is a potential risk to all of your other fish.

    #345688

    psbresner
    Participant

    Morning All,

    pH: 7.5
    Ammonia: 0
    Nitrite: 0
    Nitrate: 5
    Temperature: 26c
    GH/KH: 4/2
    TDS/Conductivity:
    Tap Water Parameters:
    Test kit used: Api Master Test Kit

    Tank Size: 4ft x 45″ x 55″ 300 litres

    Length of time set-up: 6 months
    Filtration used: External Aquis 1200, Internal Fluval 4plus
    Maintenance Schedule: 30% Weekly water change, Nutrafin Aquaplus

    Detailed stock list:
    13x Cardinal Tetras, 4x Boseman Rainbows, 1x Gold Spotted Plec
    Recent additions to tank:
    10x Malaysian Trumpet Snails

    What fish are affected: 1x Boseman Rainbow
    What are the symptoms: Scales missing, red/pink patches, Bulging eye
    Treatment already used: Melafix/pimafix, esha2000

    Thanks

    Paul

    #345702

    Jarcave
    Participant

    All sounds good. The template is there to try and diagnose any obvious problems, but your water parameters all look fine. Have you taken the fish to a vet? And have you got it in quarantine?

    #345705

    psbresner
    Participant

    QUOTE (Jarcave @ Oct 20 2011, 09:42 AM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
    All sounds good. The template is there to try and diagnose any obvious problems, but your water parameters all look fine. Have you taken the fish to a vet? And have you got it in quarantine?

    PH had been low for a couple of weeks, that was about a month or so ago. Was 6.5 at its lowest.

    Haven’t contacted a vet as yet, sounds rather costly to get any tests done.

    Don’t have another tank so can’t quarantine him.

    Thanks

    Paul

    #345713

    Jarcave
    Participant

    QUOTE (psbresner @ Oct 20 2011, 10:33 AM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
    PH had been low for a couple of weeks, that was about a month or so ago. Was 6.5 at its lowest.

    Haven’t contacted a vet as yet, sounds rather costly to get any tests done.

    Don’t have another tank so can’t quarantine him.

    Thanks

    Paul

    #345714

    psbresner
    Participant

    QUOTE (Jarcave @ Oct 20 2011, 03:29 PM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
    So what’s your plan?

    Well I phoned my lfs which are normally very good, but they didn’t seem to think it was TB. They said it sounds like spawning males, but that doesn’t account for the bulging eye.

    I guess I’ll have to phone my vet who I usually take my dogs to and ask their advice.

    Thanks

    Paul

    #345740

    Dave Argyll
    Participant

    Hi Paul, i have some experience of this, though i am offering this advice as one hobbiest to another, and you should consult a fish vet close to you who can examine the fish and offer advice in a professional capacity (contact the Fish Vet Society in the UK who can point you in the direction of a local(ish) vet who specializes in fish)

    this my tuppence worth, dont sue me if i’m wrong /blush.gif” style=”vertical-align:middle” emoid=”:blush:” border=”0″ alt=”blush.gif” /> ), and I was on 6 weeks of antibiotics (minocycline) to clear it up, fortunately it has never recurred, though recurrence many years down the line cant be ruled out. Always wear gloves when handling diseased fish especially tropicals! i learned that the hard way. Google ‘fish tank granuloma’, not pretty! /thumbs_down.gif” style=”vertical-align:middle” emoid=”:thumbsdn:” border=”0″ alt=”thumbs_down.gif” /> .)
    Choose live food carefully! it has been suggested that some live foods carry Myco. Only buy from a reputable source or use gamma radiated frozen food, or culture your own.

    Sick individuals are very difficult to treat and most fish vets you speak to will say they have had poor results. If it is a valuable individual you could try a long course of antibiotics (6 weeks or more) and the vet will probably advise a combination of two antibiotics concurrently (e.g enrofloxacin and doxycycline). The problem is that Myco becomes resistant to antibiotics very easily. This bacteria can persist in its dormant form inside granulomas and only a few surviving bacteria can revive themselves later and bring on the next generation of more resistant bacteria. Its also really hard to give a fish antibiotics for 6 weeks, believe me i’ve tried, water quality is a nightmare to maintain because your biological filtration will be killed off, so it’s daily water changing 50% or more to keep on top of ammonia build up. Also sick fish dont eat well so its regular injections (given under general anaesthetic or heavy sedation) and/or baths with the more soluble products some of which are absorbed fairly well.

    Hope this helps

    #345753

    psbresner
    Participant

    QUOTE (Dave Argyll @ Oct 21 2011, 12:09 PM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
    Hi Paul, i have some experience of this, though i am offering this advice as one hobbiest to another, and you should consult a fish vet close to you who can examine the fish and offer advice in a professional capacity (contact the Fish Vet Society in the UK who can point you in the direction of a local(ish) vet who specializes in fish)

    this my tuppence worth, dont sue me if i’m wrong /blush.gif” style=”vertical-align:middle” emoid=”:blush:” border=”0″ alt=”blush.gif” /> ), and I was on 6 weeks of antibiotics (minocycline) to clear it up, fortunately it has never recurred, though recurrence many years down the line cant be ruled out. Always wear gloves when handling diseased fish especially tropicals! i learned that the hard way. Google ‘fish tank granuloma’, not pretty! /thumbs_down.gif” style=”vertical-align:middle” emoid=”:thumbsdn:” border=”0″ alt=”thumbs_down.gif” /> .)
    Choose live food carefully! it has been suggested that some live foods carry Myco. Only buy from a reputable source or use gamma radiated frozen food, or culture your own.

    Sick individuals are very difficult to treat and most fish vets you speak to will say they have had poor results. If it is a valuable individual you could try a long course of antibiotics (6 weeks or more) and the vet will probably advise a combination of two antibiotics concurrently (e.g enrofloxacin and doxycycline). The problem is that Myco becomes resistant to antibiotics very easily. This bacteria can persist in its dormant form inside granulomas and only a few surviving bacteria can revive themselves later and bring on the next generation of more resistant bacteria. Its also really hard to give a fish antibiotics for 6 weeks, believe me i’ve tried, water quality is a nightmare to maintain because your biological filtration will be killed off, so it’s daily water changing 50% or more to keep on top of ammonia build up. Also sick fish dont eat well so its regular injections (given under general anaesthetic or heavy sedation) and/or baths with the more soluble products some of which are absorbed fairly well.

    Hope this helps

    #345904

    psbresner
    Participant

    Hi Guys,

    The fish has now died /smile.gif” style=”vertical-align:middle” emoid=”:)” border=”0″ alt=”smile.gif” />

    #345932

    mikev
    Participant

    Sorry for being late to this (and for the fish), only noticed this now. A couple of things:

    QUOTE (Jaguar @ Oct 18 2011, 12:26 PM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
    The only real way and to be certain it is mycobacteriosis (Fish TB) is to take a swab from the fish and to get it tested by a vet, but this can be expensive.

    Expensive and inconclusive too, unfortunately. Mycobacteria is present in most tanks, and there were studies showing that at least 90% of wild caught fish have some of it *on them*. This does not mean that all fish suffer from Fish TB, and detection of *some* mycobacteria in the tank does not indicate an active disease.

    QUOTE
    A good sign of Fish TB is a curvature of the spine but not all fish show this symptom, is there any noticeable sign of a spinal deformity?

    Diagnostics depends on the type of fish.

    This is a good sign indeed, but not for rainbows. This only works well with narrow body smaller fish, like danios, tetras or guppies. In fact, these can be used to detect a high mycobacteria level in a tank.

    With rainbows IME spinal deformities almost always mean something else, for example Ca deficiency or genetic defects. At the same time, the sores (just as shown on the photos) are the best diagnostics tool.

    Further,

    QUOTE
    PH had been low for a couple of weeks, that was about a month or so ago. Was 6.5 at its lowest.

    PH fluctuations are very bad for specifically rainbowfish immune system…and are a known trigger for TB infections.

    One more thing to keep in mind: mycobacteria is an environmental bacteria, it does not require a host. A tank where a disease case occurred has a high load of myco in the tank itself (substrate, filter, even glass). A way to alleviate the level of infection and cut down on future cases would be to nuke the tank, moving the healthy (well, symptomless really) fish into a new one.

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