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Puntius Conchonius With 'mirror Carp-like' Condition

Home Forums Fresh and Brackish Water Fishes Puntius Conchonius With 'mirror Carp-like' Condition

This topic contains 16 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by  bwleung 8 years, 2 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 17 total)
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  • #299933

    Was at an LFS 2 weeks ago and they had their typical puntius conchonius tank(of which were 100% male /thumbs_up.gif” style=”vertical-align:middle” emoid=”:thumbsup:” border=”0″ alt=”thumbs_up.gif” /> . So now I have this one ‘special’ puntius conchonius swimming around in one of my tanks at home.

    I have been trying really hard to get a photo- but at photo time the fish goes to the back of the tank and I can’t seem to get a focus-and zooming is a failure.

    Anyway, this fish has ‘bald’ patches where there are no scales and there are scales on the fish, but they are 5-6 times the size of a normal scale. I’ve seen this on some of the carp I catch when I go fishing-I’ve heard them called mirror carp. The bright orangish-red color is actually quite stunning coming off of this fish with larger than normal scales. I know puntius and common carp are related so maybe it’s just a ‘cyprinid’ thing(the genetic scale difference).

    If I can ever get a good,clear photo I will post here.

    -Urb

    #311642

    Mark Duffill
    Participant

    The mirror carp came about by selective breeding, Monks in Britain were the first to start it and started off with wild common carp and through selective breeding and crude hybridisation came up with the mirror carp which was easier to prepare because it had less scales. Then they went further and created the leather carp which apart from a row of small scales along its back and some on its caudal peduncle are totally scaleless and so even easier to prepare as food.

    The fish you have could well be just a one off genetic mutation or someone could be messing with them and these fish will start appearing everywhere, it would be good to see a photo if possible.

    #311643

    Matt
    Keymaster

    Sounds…interesting…

    #311646

    Mark Duffill
    Participant

    Ive talked to a couple of friends this afternoon and they haven’t heard of any hybrid rosy barbs coming out of Eastern Europe and haven’t seen anything unusual in the trade so this could well be a one off.

    It will be interesting to hear if anyone sees anymore or they start appearing on a more regular basis

    #311649

    mickthefish
    Participant

    thats what we need the pic, i’m as curious as you two now.
    there has been one hybrid form with a rosy and ?.

    mick

    #311660

    David Marshall
    Participant

    Hey Folks

    While visiting an aquatic retail outlet, last Tuesday, I was surprised to find some bright gold coloured barbs for sale under an Odessa label. It was clear to see that these fish were of a Rosy x Odessa cross.

    The same outlet also had for sale x-ray, with fainter colour and visible working body parts, barbs and it was easy to see that these were from the same ‘line’ as the above.

    Also around is a bright pink coloured Sucking loach (G. a. variant) with deep black eyes.

    Regards David

    #311791

    BUMP:

    While these may not be the ‘good, clear photos’ I promised, they are the best I can do and it was a pain too.

    I had to catch this b*gg*r and place him into an uninhabited nano tank I have, then I placed a glass slide behind him to try to ‘restrain’ him a little for photography. As you can see by the photos I didn’t do a very good job as he wouldn’t hold still

    Attached files

    #311797

    Yikes, I got asterisked. I didn’t realize b-u-g-g-e-r was a bad word?!

    #311803

    Matt
    Keymaster

    That bugger looks like the form that’s sold as “metallic” rosy barb in the UK Urb.

    #311813

    They have ‘metallic’ ones here too. None of them, however, had scales this size and smooth scaleless areas to boot.

    I just wish I could get better pics to show the 3-5 Millimeter scales this 2 inch fish has. The rest of the fish in the store had more typical 1-1 1/2 millimeter size scales.

    Another weird thing about the scales on this Rosy-is how the scale size varies and is not uniform.

    -Urb

    #311814

    Malti
    Participant

    b*gg*r

    just testing

    #311816

    QUOTE (Malti @ Dec 10 2008, 10:29 AM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
    urb what cam do u have?

    Samsung S860 8.1 Megapixel

    #312766

    gib
    Participant

    Hi, i joined because i could find nothing else on Google about Rosy Barbs with scales similar to a Mirror Carp. I wonder if any consensus has been reached?

    The reason i googled was that i bought a male that looks exactly like the one in your pics a few weeks ago, together with 2 normally scaled females. He was the only Mirror Rosy in the LFS holding tank. Quarantined in a planted 70L tank and subsequently moved to my community tank. Yesterday noticed that the 70L is alive with fry.

    I have left the fluval 2 internal running – it’s one of the new style so has clogged quickly and doesn’t have much suck. My feeling is to leave things as they are seeing as lots of the fry are now 3mm. I have no idea what they have been eating but now seem to be taking powdered flake.

    I’m hoping a proportion of the fry will carry the mirror mutation, they are still too small to really tell but some seem to have glittery flecks so it looks hopeful.

    I live in Essex, England. What’s the best way to find homes for all these babies?

    I’m also happy to chat on msn – gibbb9 at hotmail dot com

    gib

    #312772

    Reva
    Participant

    I think I just bought some of these myself!

    #315785

    bwleung
    Participant

    QUOTE (Urban Aquarist @ Nov 25 2008, 03:30 PM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
    Anyway, this fish has ‘bald’ patches where there are no scales and there are scales on the fish, but they are 5-6 times the size of a normal scale. I’ve seen this on some of the carp I catch when I go fishing-I’ve heard them called mirror carp. The bright orangish-red color is actually quite stunning coming off of this fish with larger than normal scales. I know puntius and common carp are related so maybe it’s just a ‘cyprinid’ thing(the genetic scale difference).

    They have ‘metallic’ ones here too. None of them, however, had scales this size and smooth scaleless areas to boot.

    I just wish I could get better pics to show the 3-5 Millimeter scales this 2 inch fish has. The rest of the fish in the store had more typical 1-1 1/2 millimeter size scales.

    Another weird thing about the scales on this Rosy-is how the scale size varies and is not uniform.

    -Urb

    Dear Urban Aquarist,

    I’ve seen the photos, however they are inconclusive. It is possible that you have a mirrorscale Puntius conchonius – Rosy barb.

    However, it is just possible that the smooth scalesless’ bald’ areas have opaque ‘nacreous’ scales instead of metallic scales.

    Let me explain in more detail. Mirror carp is a genetic mutation, the same mutation could occur in Rosy barb theoretically, but none has been recognised to date.

    However, it is just as possible that your fish is a nacreous rosy barb instead, ie, a rosy barb with both metallic scales and opaque scales, which does look bald as they are non-reflective, but they are still scales. Therefore the fish look bald as these opaque scales do not reflect. If the area is truely bald, no scales, then what you have is a ‘scattered’ variety of the Rosy barb equivalent to the mirror carp.

    However you said the scales are larger than normal. On the basis they are not overlapping reflective scales adjacent to each other, and that each scale are reflective and larger than normal, and where bald areas are truely devoid of opaque scales, then you really do have a scattered variety of the mirrorscale rosy barb.

    Please look after this fish, and maintain this genetic trait by breeding it with females rosy barbs. Then raise the frys and breed it back to this male rosy barb. Some of the frys will be like this male parent. Keep inbreeding the children and grandchilden back to this male parent to fix the mirrorscale trait. you have something very unique if you do have a mirrorscale rosy barb.

    PS: Male Rosy barb sperm has been used to hybridise with female mirrorscale European carp eggs by scientists and resulted in linear mirrorscale hybrids, however, they are all sterile. Your fish from the photo is not a hybrid, this I can confirm.

    Also, the golden form of rosy barb is not a hybrid either, just a yellow colour variant, as all hybrids between rosy barbs with other barbs have only resulted in sterile offsprings to date.

    Kind regards,

    Bill

    Melbourne, Australia

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