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Puntius Conchonius With 'mirror Carp-like' Condition

Home Forums Fresh and Brackish Water Fishes Puntius Conchonius With 'mirror Carp-like' Condition

This topic contains 16 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by  bwleung 9 years, 10 months ago.

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    Hi Bill do you think this is a case of random genetic mutation then? In that case how would you explain the other, similar fish that members here are reporting?



    QUOTE (Matt @ Dec 21 2009, 10:25 AM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
    Hi Bill do you think this is a case of random genetic mutation then? In that case how would you explain the other, similar fish that members here are reporting?

    Dear Matt,

    My personal views are:

    If Urban Aquarist has a mirrorscale rosy barb of the scattered variety, then it is random mutation then for mirrorscale genetic mutation. This is on the premise the bald area are truely devoid of scales and not covered with opaque scales. The mutation for mirrorscale is one out of two gene has mutated, giving the mirrorscale condition, while the other gene steps in to overcome the pliotropic effect,s thus the condition is not lethal in the rosy barb. As rosy barb has 2n = 50 for the no. of chromosomes. This condition is theorectically posssible, as there are scale loss mutation in bracydanio rerio, zebra danios, and they are 2n=50 also. The genetics behind mirrorscale has been identified by Max Planck institute in Gernmany in around Oct this year.

    On the otherhand:
    The other reported threads such as the ones from Essex England, without photos are reporting similar ones with metallic scales. Again, rosy barbs have been dometiscated for so many generations, many of the males no longer have metallic reflections like their wild ancestors. Other have enahnced metallic glint and with silver females instead of olive females. Many tend to show nacreous scales, especially the yellow variant morphs of the rosy barbs, the males often do not show much metallic scales anymore.

    If I have to take a punt, I do not think the bald area of the fish that was photographed have no scales on the non-reflective area, rather I think there are nacreous opaque scales there. The reason is just behind the head of the fish in the photos, you can see the net like markings of where each of the scales are distributed. This suggests to me there are scales there, but they are opaque. Leather scaleless carp do not show net like markeings, but a parallel lee-wave pattern neat their lateral line instead.

    Somone really have to take them out with a tweezer to see if they can pluck sclaes out of the bald areas per se or have really good cameras with macro function to take good photos.

    The case of rosy barbs with nacreous scales (ie, a mix of metallic and opaque scales) outweights the chance of rosy barbs with mirrorscales. Rosy barb reflective scales are strongest generally near the abdomen. The fact is, if they are truely mirrorscales with bald ares, they should also appear in female rosy barbs also, as mirror scale pattern mutation is not sex-linked.

    The fact they are reported both in the US and UK points to the fact that either we are looking at nacreous opaque scale types, which is common in rosy barbs nowadays, instead of mirrorscale, unless both UK and Us source came from the same fish farm(s) locale, ie, the mutation is established and a sustainable population already exists. It is far more easier to be misidentified and misunderstood to think a fish with both metallic and opaques scales as mirrorsscale when they are not, ie the opaque areas are not really scaleless.

    Above is link to a naturally occuring nacreous mutation of a type of wild goldfish in Japan, carassius langsdorfii. Something akin to the rosy barb we are observing in the photos. Where the metallic scales overlap among the opaque scales, they look enlarged.

    Someone really need to take a closer look at what they got here and know what they are looking at.

    Hope that helps, Matt.

    Kind regards,


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