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Sphaerichthys spp.

Home Forums Fresh and Brackish Water Fishes Sphaerichthys spp.

This topic contains 0 replies, has 1 voice, and was last updated by  Colin 5 years ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 47 total)
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  • #301811

    Matt
    Keymaster

    Ok so might as well sort out this genus while I’m at it with Parasphaerichthys. resolve the issue in 2009. Is S. osphromenoides a maternal or paternal mouthbrooder? It’s normally said to be the former, but this doesn’t match with any other member of the genus, nor related groups such as Ctenops, Luciocephalus, Betta and the other three Sphaerichthys species, all of which adopt a paternal strategy.

    Odd, no?

    #345830

    Stefan
    Member

    Osp and sela maternal, the others paternal.

    Edited my post; had them reversed – sorry.

    #345831

    Colin
    Participant

    …not the other way round? having a confused moment????

    #345832

    Stefan
    Member

    Yes, I remember a friend whoi worked with them long before I was born about it, and more recently as well.

    #345835

    Matt
    Keymaster

    I was under the impression the traditional view is they’re all paternal except S. osphromenoides, and that females are the more colourful/strongly patterned in all cases…

    #345837

    FKS
    Participant

    At least for selatanensis the male are moutbrooding/paternal.

    #345839

    ste12000
    Member

    QUOTE (FKS @ Oct 27 2011, 08:07 PM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
    At least for selatanensis the male are moutbrooding/paternal.

    FKS, do you have data or evidence to prove this? with my old S.selatanensis the female broods the eggs.. I know this first hand after breeding them several times, several years ago.




    #345840

    Matt
    Keymaster

    How did you sex them Ste?

    #345841

    ste12000
    Member

    QUOTE (Matt @ Oct 28 2011, 12:15 AM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
    How did you sex them Ste?

    With great difficulty.. I missed the first spawning so at first was not sure which parent was carrying the eggs, this was confirmed to be the female in future spawns.. Plus the female was removed to another tank to drop her fry and the male proceeded to spawn with another female. It was 110% the female who carried the eggs and larvae.

    Just observation really.. Males were very protective of the females once they were carrying eggs, both parents stayed in the upper corner under floating beech leaves and the male defended to imediate area.

    My observations can be found here.. http://www.northtrop.co.uk/ the website will not allow me to link direct to the article but click the article link, then go into the ‘other species’ section. My article is number 13(both of them!!)

    It suprises me that this is not already known, Horst Linke also states that both S.osphromoides and S.selatanesis are maternal mouthbrooders, he reports that S,acrostoma are paternal..I wish i had got some of these from Colin when he had them several weeks ago! im kicking myself that i didnt get any

    #345842

    FKS
    Participant

    QUOTE (ste12000 @ Oct 27 2011, 10:56 PM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
    FKS, do you have data or evidence to prove this?


    just from reports: e.g. Olaf Deters observed that the selatanensis shown on the picture (http://www.deters-ing.de//Allgemeines/Temp/Fotos/sela_w.jpg) was not the one breeding the eggs after spawning.

    #345843

    ste12000
    Member

    QUOTE (FKS @ Oct 28 2011, 07:02 AM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
    just from reports: e.g. Olaf Deters observed that the selatanensis shown on the picture (http://www.deters-ing.de//Allgemeines/Temp/Fotos/sela_w.jpg) was not the one breeding the eggs after spawning.

    Hi FKS, do you have a copy of that report for my own use and records?? Id be very grateful for a copy.

    For many years there was a great deal of confussion over the genus and its breeding, history shows many inaccurate reports, some said they were livebearing, others that they were bubblenesters

    Han Joachim Richter recorded(and photographed for the first time) possibly one of the earliest accurate breeding reports of S.osphromenoides and this report from 1972(TFH) shows without doupt that the female in this spawn held the eggs making his fish maternal mouthbrooders. Both Richters, Horst linke’s and my own reports all state that both S.osphromenoides and S.selatensis are maternal mouthbrooders, all three reports are from the breeders own observations, not simply hear say on a forum from someone elses reports.

    Pretty conclusive??

    Im completely positive that both S.osphromenoides and S.selatensis are maternal and reports from Linke show that S.acrostoma are paternal? i have no personal experience with S.vaillianti but a very good friend of mine here in the NW has successfully spawned and raised this species, ill ring him later for details and will update this thread.

    #345844

    FKS
    Participant

    QUOTE (ste12000 @ Oct 28 2011, 09:29 AM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
    Hi FKS, do you have a copy of that report for my own use and records?? Id be very grateful for a copy.


    sorry. This is mostly based on personal communication as well as some short reports from various internet pages, e.g.
    http://www.igl-home.de/forum/phpBB2/viewto…18&start=15
    http://www.maidara.com/Osphronemidae/Sphaer_selatanensis.htm
    (you may use a translator)

    Anyway, what we actually need is a series of pictures or a video of a spwaning pair clearly showing who brings in the eggs and who picks them up for moutbreeding. Finally, it is up to those saying these two sepcies are maternal to show evidence, because this breeding behaviour doesn’t fit to the rest of the entire labyrinths community…

    QUOTE
    Linke show that S.acrostoma are paternal?

    in accordance to Olaf’s observations.

    QUOTE
    Pretty conclusive??

    indeed. Should try to get some of these guys and have a look…

    QUOTE
    i have no personal experience with S.vaillianti but a very good friend of mine here in the NW has successfully spawned and raised this species, ill ring him later for details and will update this thread.

    this is simply clear: paternal. And this time based on my own experiences (link)!

    #345845

    FKS
    Participant

    sorry…

    #345847

    ste12000
    Member

    QUOTE (FKS @ Oct 28 2011, 08:48 AM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
    sorry. This is mostly based on personal communication as well as some short reports from various internet pages, e.g.
    http://www.igl-home.de/forum/phpBB2/viewto…18&start=15
    http://www.maidara.com/Osphronemidae/Sphaer_selatanensis.htm
    (you may use a translator)

    Anyway, what we actually need is a series of pictures or a video of a spwaning pair clearly showing who brings in the eggs and who picks them up for moutbreeding. Finally, it is up to those saying these two sepcies are maternal to show evidence, because this breeding behaviour doesn’t fit to the rest of the entire labyrinths community…

    in accordance to Olaf’s observations.

    indeed. Should try to get some of these guys and have a look…

    this is simply clear: paternal. And this time based on my own experiences (link)!

    Im sorry those two links are completely inconclusive and i trust my own observations far more than a simple ID web page with no concrete breeding evidence. http://www.maidara.com/Osphronemidae/Sphaer_selatanensis.htm

    In this forum post http://www.igl-home.de/forum/phpBB2/viewto…18&start=15
    the main poster is ‘Panda’ and he states very clearly that his females are brooding the fry(over several spawns) making his fish maternal, you ignore this and quote 1 post at the end who states that his are paternal, this ‘fryday’ forum user provides no concrete evidence to back up his claims and only posts a ‘poor’ picture of a single fish.

    Any person on the internet can spout ‘accurate’ information!! not many can back it up with personal experience, you seem to be ignoring the documented spawnings and clinging to several poor and unreliable internet pages!

    Why take his word over 4 written articles in which it clearly states that both S.osphromenoides and S.selatensis are maternal..These are all personal observations with pictures of fry to prove that they have bred the fish. All state that they are maternal.

    Everything quoted, by yourself, about the two species is unreliable and inconclusive.

    In 1906 Julius Reichelt wrote that he thought the fish were livebearers, in 1948 Aaran Wold stated that his S.osphromenoides spawned under a bubblenest!!! it has already been proven that these observations were wrong, i myself have proved that S.selatensis are a maternal mouthbrooders and stand by my observations 100%, i do not doupt my own observations and do doupt your sources as they cannot prove otherwise with any information that is better than my own observations.

    This group of fish has about the most interesting history of all tropical fish, i cannot remember a group of fish where so much mystery and myth surrounds it.. With the digital age we are in much closer contact with each other and information can be shared easily. However the internet and forums are awash with instant ‘experts’ who rely far too much on google and dont stand up as breeders or providers of accurate information in a face to face situation(ive lost count of people who are really knowlegable about breeding various fish while typing at a computer and then when we meet at a club or fishroom they actually know very little once prised away from the keyboard!).
    Hense im afraid i require proof from established breeders to get to the bottom of such interesting discussions and i am standing by my own observations plus those of Linke and Richter(do you have these interesting articles?)

    #345848

    FKS
    Participant

    QUOTE (ste12000 @ Oct 28 2011, 11:04 AM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
    Everything quoted, by yourself, about the two species is unreliable and inconclusive.


    so, show us your evidence…

    QUOTE
    people who are really knowlegable about breeding various fish while typing at a computer and then when we meet at a club or fishroom they actually know very little once prised away from the keyboard

    I know. But in this case I totally trust Olaf. He is an expert and spread lots of Sphaerichthys over the country.

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