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Unknown Pangio

Home Forums Fresh and Brackish Water Fishes Unknown Pangio

This topic contains 10 replies, has 2 voices, and was last updated by  Matt 2 years, 5 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 16 total)
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  • #300643

    Thomas
    Member

    Hi,

    Bought some unknown (for me) Pangio today. The caudal fin has not a dark large blotch, so I would say they aren’t P. kuhlii. Or could Kuhliis also have such a clear caudal fin?

    Any ideas?

    Attached files

    #317287

    Thomas
    Member

    Two other pics. Two other pics. The one in the front looks a bit similar to this: http://www.loaches.com/species-index/pangio-alternans

    This looks more similar to the one in the first post:

    Attached files

    #317294

    Matt
    Keymaster

    Hi Thomas, very nice-looking. /dry.gif” style=”vertical-align:middle” emoid=”<_ <" border="0" alt="dry.gif">

    #317301

    Thomas
    Member

    Hi Matt, Here you can see the dorsal surface.


    No line on the top as I know it from P. superba. But you are right, in the Kottelat & Lim paper (1993) the P. alternans looks not similar to my Pangio.


    Pic is from Kottelat & Lim 1993

    At the time they are small, ~4cm

    Attached files

    #317302

    Thomas
    Member

    QUOTE
    Saw some nice Cobitis sp. on sale here yesterday, miss my tanks. dry.gif


    Without any name?

    #317303

    Matt
    Keymaster

    The guy in the shop didn’t even know what genus they were.

    #317304

    Thomas
    Member

    Sounds good, but I have no idea. There are so much Pangios I have never seen

    #317315

    Matt
    Keymaster

    Hope we get an answer.

    #317317

    Thomas
    Member

    We got. HH says it looks like P. shelfordii to him, but the shelfordii I have kept a few times ago looks not so similar.

    But I don’t know how widespread and variabel P. shelfordii really is. At least I would say you are right with the shelfordii group. That’s great

    #317321

    Matt
    Keymaster

    They don’t look like P. shelfordii I’ve seen before either Thomas but I have the same gaps in my knowledge as you – hopefully put that right when we arrive at the letter ‘p’ in the loach profiles! In the mean time if you do manage to get a collection locality/country it could help a lot.

    #317326

    Thomas
    Member

    I will ask a bit around, maybe we get some info.

    #353467

    Thomas
    Member

    In light of current events I have to dig out the next Pangio thread.
    What do you think about this?
    http://evolution.science.nus.edu.sg/Ornamental_fish/YGN921.html

    Comparing with the first pic of this thread I would say this fits. Is it possible that the Pangios of this thread is yet P. alternans?

    The link for the whole site, maybe not only for loaches usefull ;)

    http://evolution.science.nus.edu.sg/Ornamental_fish.html

    Cheers,

    Thomas

    #353484

    Matt
    Keymaster

    Thanks for the link Thomas. Looks pretty similar doesn’t it?

    #354569

    olly
    Participant

    Hi all,

    These beautiful Pangios were purchased recently in the size about 3,5 sm (the biggest). Now they about 5-6 sm. A storekeeper said that pangios arrived from the breeder in the size of bloodworm. In the same store tank there were P.myersi of the same size. I was unable to id the species of these pangios. They have some features of P.shelfordii and not. Their behavior has some differencies from the one of the P.semicincta: they always are on the bottom. I’ve never seen them to swim in the water or to hang from a bough of plants as P.semicincta.
    Do they belong to individual species (what)?

    Natural variation within a species?
    Or artifitially obtained variation?  The result of longterm inbreeding? Strain?
    Or the result of inter-species hybridization?

    What do you think?

    In the q-tank when they were smaller. Pangio-sp6.jpg

     Pangio-sp8.jpg

     

     Pangio-sp5-1.jpg

     Pangio-sp9-1.jpg

     Later.pangio-sp.jpg

     Pangio-sp2.jpg

     pangio-sp4.jpg

     And now.Pangio-sp91.jpg

     Pangio-sp92.jpg

     Pangio-sp94.jpg

     Pangio-sp95.jpg

     Pangio-sp98.jpg

     Pangio-sp99.jpg

     Pangio-sp932.jpg

     Pangio-sp992.jpg

    #354570

    mikev
    Participant

    Very nice, thanks for sharing

    As a guess results of artificial breeding program that has been said produces several alternative patterns.

    Whether hybrids or not is impossible to say, but notice that if one crosses “p.semicincta” from Indonesia with “p.semicincta” from Indonesia this may be inter-species hybridization! — we just do not know enough.

    Analogy (definitely understandable to anyone in the US and perhaps Europe too): a very common lfs offering is “Australian rainbow”. All the batches are a bit different from each other, the fish is bred in Florida and was surely hybridized over the years (not intentionally, just sloppiness). They all have m.splendida blood in them and various additives, thus all look a bit different from each other.

    I actually keep a group of them… mine look just like m.s.inornata and very attractive… I don’t believe that they are pure bred, but since pure bred are not possible to find in the US, I don’t care. I do warn people when giving eggs/fry not to pass them further as inornata no matter their appearance.

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