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Preliminary Experiences With Rhinogobius zhoui

Home Forums Fresh and Brackish Water Fishes Preliminary Experiences With Rhinogobius zhoui

This topic contains 12 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  Matt 6 years, 10 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 106 total)
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  • #346261

    inka4040
    Participant

    QUOTE (Ferrika @ Nov 26 2011, 12:21 AM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
    Hi Inka,
    Do not feel too bad, because you’ve taken away him the eggs. If I take the stone out of the tank, I always put one another in the same spot. Then the male does not realize equal that the eggs are gone.

    Lol. Thanks, I’m sure he’ll get over it eventually, and at least this way, he won’t be starving for the next couple of weeks. Just uploaded a quick video of the eggs. Do you think this looks like enough flow? I am contemplating also running an air stone in the tank, since there is little to no surface agitation.

    #346272

    Ferrika
    Participant

    Yes, this is enough. At the end, on day 10, you should make a little bit more flow.

    #346286

    inka4040
    Participant

    QUOTE (Ferrika @ Nov 26 2011, 09:26 AM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
    Yes, this is enough. At the end, on day 10, you should make a little bit more flow.

    Thanks for the tip. I added an alder cone yesterday, and so far only 1 egg has gone bad and had to be removed. Once the eggs show a bit more development, I will post an updated video. Thanks again for all the info, Ferrika. You’ve been a great help.

    #346364

    inka4040
    Participant

    So at this point, about half of the fry have hatched out, and the rest are still hanging up in their cage. The first to hatch was 2 days ago. Any ideas about whether this extended hatching period is normal or is affected by environmental factors would be appreciated. In any case, how much flow should I be aiming for with these fry? They are still mostly immobile, with very large yolk sacs. I don’t feel comfortable with the thought of them just blowing around, but seeing them just plopped down on the floor of the tank makes me kind of nervous as well.

    #346395

    Ferrika
    Participant

    Hi Inka,
    that’s exactly the problem that I have again and again. I once had the idea, it could be due to too many alder cones, but that’s not it.
    What I do know that the male at the end of the breeding season increases the frequency of the wagging and thus stimulates the production of an enzyme which makes the membranes more permeable, so that the embryo is able to break them. But I have not found a reliable way to do this correctly reproduce artificially. For some Rhinogobius species is not a problem, but at the Rhinogobius zhoui and Rhinogobius nandujiangensis it is a big one.

    #346457

    inka4040
    Participant

    Thankfully I only had 1 loss in the hatching process. Got a bunch of clumsy wrigglers at this point. Still a couple days away from depleting the yolk sac, but dang are they cute at this age. Gotta love those googly eyes.

    #347226

    inka4040
    Participant

    Something’s wrong with the youtube embedder. No matter what URL I plug in, the one that shows up is (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=http://www.)

    Not sure what’s up with that. In any case, the fry are doing pretty well. Growing much more slowly than I had imagined/hoped, especially given the easy and nearly constant access to live food. First two batches are living together now, and the smaller rearing tank has been turned over to the newest pair’s first batch of eggs, it seems that they were not in fact, incorrectly sexed. Given the vast differences in colors between the two females, I have to wonder whether different collection localities may end up being classified as different subspecies. Given that none of the fish I acquired, save the first male, where I might have a chance of finding out, were labeled with any sort of collection data, I’m not sure how much I can really do about it in the long run. I can’t verify that any of the fish in my breeding group are from the same collection points. Here’s an updated video of the fry, since it doesn’t seem to want to embed.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iT9TaRdLGMo…feature=channel

    #347228

    Matt
    Keymaster

    Does anyone know if the existence of more than one collection locality has been confirmed?

    #347246

    inka4040
    Participant

    QUOTE (Matt @ Feb 20 2012, 03:42 AM) < {POST_SNAPBACK}>
    Does anyone know if the existence of more than one collection locality has been confirmed?

    I’ve never read anything specifically stating that there are multiple collection localities, but my two females have very distinct differences, and look almost entirely different from the females pictured in Stan Sung’s article on the zhoui. Granted, they are very variable in terms of color, but I have seen very little overlap in the coloring of the two ladies in my possession. I just assumed the differences were chalked up to regional variability.

    #347257

    Ferrika
    Participant

    Not confirmed, Matt, but the last males that I got, differed in color and fin shape also the ones I had before. Depending on the location the color varies quite significantly. The females differ even within a single clutch very much from each other. Some have very bright colors, others quite pale, and some females are almost indistinguishable from males.

    Inka, that the young grow so slowly, I can confirm. Helpful are very frequent water changes (I change almost daily), they grow faster and stronger.

    #347260

    Matt
    Keymaster

    Can you guys give a little more detail about exactly how individual fish differ? I can ask a couple of people about it. Don’t think we should discount basic phenotypic variability within a single population until more facts are known.

    I now have a group of R. rubromaculatus adults by the way (thanks again Charles). Will get some pics soon.

    #347283

    inka4040
    Participant

    Thanks so much again, Jutta. Do you recommend daily water changes on the fry alone, or for the eggs as well? Generally I have been changing twice a week, with water from the parent tank, after it has been changed and rested for a day.

    Matt, I only have 2 adult females, so hardly a major sample size, but there are distinct differences between my two. One female has muted red over a very light base on the body, very light red and iridescent spangling in the fins, with a barely noticeable white margin. The other, has bright crimson on the flanks, almost comparable to a male’s but without as much opacity, and no white on the body. The fins are heavily spangled with both red and iridescence, and also feature a prominent white border. Had I not collected a batch of eggs from this very female, I would still assume it was a juvenile male, it’s color is so strong. The females in Stan Sung’s article are much more orange in color than either of my females, and seemed to have much less patterning in the fins. My males, aside from slight differences in the intensity of the red, look generally the same.

    Rubromaculatus are fun fish. Mine seem to be much more voracious eaters than the zhoui and duospilus I’ve kept in the past.

    #347284

    Ferrika
    Participant

    Hi Inka,
    I change always with fresh water from the tap. Growth inhibitors are for example Nitrate or phosphate, which accumulate in the aquarium water. This is it, to keep it low, or just to remove with the water change.

    @ Matt
    I show here just a few pictures of my group. Of the last males that I have received, many have died, but one is on the pictures to see.

    Males:

    On the left an offspring male, on the right one of the last males, I’ve got (location of catch unknown)

    In front a male, I’ve got from a friend, some of the first that was imported by Roland Numrich. This is the Dad of all on my offsprings.
    Behind it a male imported directly from Hong Kong (location of catch unknown)

    Offspring male from the first clutch, looks like his Dad. (hatched on June 2011)

    Offspring male from the last clutch on September 2011 (I’m allways amazed about the large dorsales)

    Females:

    The first female, I’ve got. Imported by Roland Numrich

    Female, directly imported from Hong Kong, location of catch unknown

    Offspring female from June 2011

    Offspring female from June 2011

    A part of the group. On Top and bottom the offsprings, on middle the last male from Dietzenbach. On the lid the old female, in front of it the female from Hong Kong, on top two females from Hong Kong, to the right an offspring female.

    #347287

    Matt
    Keymaster

    Wow, thanks both, especially Jutta for the superb series of photos! Will see if I can get any info.

    #347385

    Matt
    Keymaster

    Ok, so I’ve shown the image series in this thread to a couple of people, including Stan Sung, and it seems no-one sees anything other than natural variability here. As far as anyone knows the species hasn’t been found outside the area close to the the type locality either.

    Jutta, you said that even females within a single clutch can look considerably different, and apparently three other Rhinogobius ‘species’ occur sympatrically with R. zhoui, so maybe there could be some degree of speciation taking place in the habitats, too?

    Regarding the differences in male fin shape, is there any consistency between dominant and subdominant individuals or does it just appear to be random? How does the fin shape differ exactly?

    Sorry for all the questions.

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