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Trying to Save Hillstream Loaches (Gastromyzon spp.)

Home Forums My Aquarium Trying to Save Hillstream Loaches (Gastromyzon spp.)

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 47 total)
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  • #353199

    aquariumhobbyist
    Participant

    @mikev said:
    Albendazole is effective against internal parasites and in fact nearly analogous to flubendazole I suggested before, the problem is that it is nearly unsoluble in water, so just putting med into tank water will not work. Dissolving by grinding the med into fine powder and then stirring in hot water may or may not work, you can try. If you succeeded you should see all the snails in the tank dead in 3-4 days, it kills snails the same way as worms.
    Much simpler albeit costlier would be to buy flubendazole (again: wormer plus, order from the UK, they ship worldwide).
    Minimal effect on protozoa.

    If is internal worms you are dealing with, corys will be wiped out too, but a bit later. If protozoa or something else — not certain.

    By wiped out, you mean by the medication or worms?

     

    How do I tell if it is the worms you were talking about? Any symptoms I should look for?

    #353201

    mikev
    Participant

    Wiped out: by the worms. Albendazole should be totally safe if it is chemically pure.

    Symptoms: not much. With cammalanus you may see the worms sticking out of the anus of the fish. With capillaria the worms stay inside and very small, so you don’t see them. You may see fish losing weight or developing secondary infections but on a small fish like gastro more likely you will see nothing.

    The reason people treat w/c fish for worms is because it is a common cause of problems and direct worms kill not merely one fish but whole tanks….. but it is not the only disease around. Protozoan diseases happen and so do bacterial.

    #353202

    BillT
    Participant

    Capillaria have rather unique looking eggs and can be identified based upon that, if you have a microscope (dissecting scope OK).

    Here is a picture of their eggs: http://zebrafish.org/zirc/health/diseaseManual.php#Metazoan%20Parasites%20-%20Capillariasis

    They are between 50 and 100 microns.

     

    They recommend dissecting out the gut contents, but you could probably find the eggs in fresh fish poop.

    #353203

    mikev
    Participant

    I had an encounter with capillaria in new pseudogastromyzons a few years ago…in those dark ages I did not yet treat everything proactively with flubendazole and still thought that levimisole works on all nematodes … I was lucky that a good lab was willing to help to figure out the disease, but they detected cap eggs only on the 4th body I gave them. :(

    #353204

    aquariumhobbyist
    Participant

    @BillT said:
    Capillaria have rather unique looking eggs and can be identified based upon that, if you have a microscope (dissecting scope OK).

    Here is a picture of their eggs: http://zebrafish.org/zirc/health/diseaseManual.php#Metazoan%20Parasites%20-%20Capillariasis

    They are between 50 and 100 microns.

     

    They recommend dissecting out the gut contents, but you could probably find the eggs in fresh fish poop.

    If only I had a microscope… Cry

     

    #353205

    aquariumhobbyist
    Participant

    @mikev said:
    I had an encounter with capillaria in new pseudogastromyzons a few years ago…in those dark ages I did not yet treat everything proactively with flubendazole and still thought that levimisole works on all nematodes … I was lucky that a good lab was willing to help to figure out the disease, but they detected cap eggs only on the 4th body I gave them. :(

    since I have no way of knowing, would treating the tank regardless help? would the plants (cornuta) be affected? There are no snails.

     

     

     

    #353206

    aquariumhobbyist
    Participant

    Last night, I noticed that some of the food I was feeding the cories got stuck between the leaves of the plants had turned to grey fungus! I am so worried now. What do you guys recommend? Water change or water change + fungus medication?

    #353208

    mikev
    Participant

    Treatment would help only if you guess the problem correctly. Worms are the more common issue, but one should treat for protozoa and bacteria too, best preventively and sure once you see fish dying. You chances of not losing ALL fish are much better with treatment.

    OTOH, fungused food is not an issue to worry much about. Feed less and/or have snails to dispose of extra food.

    #353211

    aquariumhobbyist
    Participant

    @mikev said:
    Treatment would help only if you guess the problem correctly. Worms are the more common issue, but one should treat for protozoa and bacteria too, best preventively and sure once you see fish dying. You chances of not losing ALL fish are much better with treatment.

    OTOH, fungused food is not an issue to worry much about. Feed less and/or have snails to dispose of extra food.

    ok so:

    1. albendazole for the worms (have to figure out how to dissolve this in water though… and also do I have to mix it in their food or just add to aquarium water?)

    2. ???? for the protozoa (metrodinazole?)

    3. ???? for the bacteria (methyl blue?)

    #353212

    mikev
    Participant

    1. tank treatment. tbh, I cannot believe that someone would keep asking this question for more than a month instead of just checking with WormerPlus in the UK and ordering proper med from them.
    2. Answered on May 16th, see up the thread.
    3. Kanamycin and/ or Furan2

    #353213

    aquariumhobbyist
    Participant

    @mikev said:
    1. tank treatment. tbh, I cannot believe that someone would keep asking this question for more than a month instead of just checking with WormerPlus in the UK and ordering proper med from them.
    2. Answered on May 16th, see up the thread.
    3. Kanamycin and/ or Furan2

    I apologize if I have frustrated you or anyone else. As I mentioned before, strict import regulations wrt to medication is what prevented me from getting the wormerplus from the UK (heck, I could have gotten it from Amazon, there was a seller that ships this internationally, but it was the import regulations that ultimately stopped this course of action). I did research this a lot and it simply wasn’t an option. Only recently did I find out about albendazole and asked here on the thread. I got it now and wanted to know the correct tank application, and more importantly dosage.

    Again, quinine is not something I have access to and ordering from abroad is not an option. Therefore, I was trying to ask if there are others that have used alternate medication with success or if there is an alternate someone knows of.

    This is not available directly for fish. I can get some Sera Backtotabs but that has to be ingested afaik. Would oxytetracycline be an alternative?

     

    Also, as I have plants in the tank, I am a little worried about the plant suitability of these.

     

    Again, I apologize if I caused any frustration to anyone. Embarassed

    #353214

    mikev
    Participant

    Medication import limitations are usually only for narcotics and antibiotics, sio it is likely you can risk ordering a dewormer or just find someone who can bring it over. If you are serious about fishkeeping, having good meds on hand is a must. But never mind.

    You are pretty much on your own with albendazole. It is likely to be a correct med, but it is not a med used by anyone with fish. You need to research on how to dissolve it, google for “dissolving fenbendazole” and you will find some articles. Given that it is a different med, you need to test everything you do one snails (properly dissolved med should kill off all the snails within 3-4 days). I was successful with grinding fenbendazole into fine powder and intensively stirring it in hot water.

    Protozoan: research anti-protozoan meds that aim at velvet. Acriflavine-based cocktails.

    Bacterial: least likely, forget this. Oxytetracycline is usually ineffective and very dangerous.

    And I would not worry too much about plants. Of the meds I mentioned only acriflavine will damage plants,, but this does not matter: if you have a parasitic worm infection in the tank, you will have to nuke it anyway.

    #353439

    aquariumhobbyist
    Participant

    after treatments and several months of no losses, I lost 1 panda cory. The tank had cyano bacteria and I was never able to get rid of it. The panda died last week, and I lost another gastro about 4 days later. Today I lost another gastro but unlike the others, this one seemed to have died from something that made parts of its skin white/lighter than the rest.

    Now, I know what columnaris looks like on the fish, and although I thought that is what it was at first, there were too many patches and all around the body… I did read something about a virus that affects these fish and it does look like that ailment…

     

    so I am down to 3 fish from the original 9… Cry

    #353441

    Plaamoo
    Participant
    #353449

    mikev
    Participant

    No, do not look there, it is all wrong. The article confuses a disease with a symptom.

    Today I lost another gastro but unlike the others, this one seemed to have died from something that made parts of its skin white/lighter than the rest.

    Inability to control coloration is not usually a symptom of a particular disease, it is a symptom of general weakening due to a disease. It does not allow to diagnose the disease or suggest a particular treatment. Yes, the disease is often bacterial, but thinking that Maracyn+Maracyn2 would work in most cases is wrong, this is not a very strong antibiotic combination. And chemical poisoning may lead to similar symptoms (btw, some strains of cyanobacteria release poisons).

    I would not consider one case after months of quarantine as an indication of a bacterial disease in the tank… sometimes fish just dies and gets weaker before dying. Now, if you get a 2nd case like this within a month, treat.

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